Hello (and some help with a Westminster PCN) ...

[diveboy]

Hi Folks

I'm new to this forum but I have been a regular campaigner on other forums against unfair PCNs. I'm not an expert in the field, just yer typically annoyed citizen! I think my recent record on PCNs is about 50% cancellations.

So, onto my recent problem. I received a PCN for parking without paying in Westminster.

I am a WCC resident and besides having a residents' permit, my vehicle is registered for the pay by phone/SMS parking service.

I swapped cars with a friend of the day, and had to park in the bay for a couple of hours. I phoned the service and spoke to an operator, who helpfully added the VRN on a temporary basis (I told him I only needed it the once). After completing the new registration he passed me through to the automated service and told me that I would be making payment for the vehicle in question. I completed the automated payment and chose not to pay another 10p for an SMS confirmation.

Westminster issued a PCN and when I appealed they said the payment was made for my own vehicle, not the one I had borrowed. They have refused to cancel the PCN and have claimed that I pressed the button to pay for the wrong car.

I am certain that the operator told me the payment was for the new car, and have no memory of the automated system telling me that it was my vehicle. When I first phoned Westminster about the PCN, I was told that there would be a recording of the call (which they confirmed in a letter to me). As far as I can see they have not listened to this call.

Given that the new vehicle registration and payment were all made during the same call, do I have a case for appeal?

Any help would be appreciated.

thanks

[rs2k]

Hi and welcome.

I am sure one of our more knowledgeable members will be along soon  

[Nigel W]

All telephone calls will need to be digitally recorded. Ask them to listen to the whole recording. If they don't back down tell them that you will take it to appeal and that they will need to produce the recording at PaTAS.

[diveboy]

Thanks for the reply. I will ask them to listen to the voice call.

Obviously, I have my recollection of the call, but it's going to be hard to make my case with PATAS if I don't know the actual contents.

[Legolas]

Nigel knows this stuff better than anyone, but I would say it will be just as hard for WCC to prove the case if they don't produce the recording to PATAS.


In short you have nothing to lose by taking it to PATAS.


But if the council provides the recording and you're right, they lose; whereas if they don't provide the recording and you've stated to PATAS and the council that the recording is required to establish the facts, then I would say it's a slam dunk game, set and match to you.


In other words, the council has rather more to lose if it turns out you're right.

[Monkey Girl]

Welcome Diveboy   

A question for you, is your resident bay compliant with the TMA 2004? ....Its worth checking 

[Martin]

*Normally* (if such a term can be used for WCC Parking Dept.) when a WCC Residents' Parking Permit holder wishes to temporarily switch a vehicle, they apply for a Temporary vehicle change, for which they charge you a £10 fee and issue you with a 16 digit URN, which you must display next to your Permit, and is valid for 2 weeks.  See link for details.  ( The hoops we have to jump through as WCC Residents! )
 http://www.westminster.gov.uk/services/transportandstreets/parking/residentsparking/temporarychange/

However, in your case (as it was a one off), it sounds like the operator agreed to add your alternate vehicle differently - perhaps as a 2nd vehicle on the existing Permit (although this would not have shown on the actual Permit itself, which it does if you apply for a Permit for two vehicles).

Anyway, as others have said, if that's what the operator agreed to do, then I think you have a very good case for Appeal, as you *have* paid for the Parking you used, and you advised them of the facts of your situation.   Sounds like they messed up - either in agreeing in the first place, and/or in issuing the PCN.

[rs2k]

Any news on this diveboy ?