Author Topic: Police roadside checks and bailiffs - intersting FOI  (Read 24961 times)

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EDW2000

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Re: Police roadside checks and bailiffs - intersting FOI
« Reply #15 on: 19 April, 2014, 07:46:40 PM »
If you look at that FoI request, it says that the Bailiffs supply their database to the Police to use in the Police ANPR vehicle.

The reason for the "belated checks" is that 'live' ANPR is not being used, therefore the information may be out of date, so a PNC check is made to determine who the current Registered Keeper is.

I'm not sure how you work out that the police officer looked "proper pissed off" when they all had their faces obscured by the BBC?

In my experience, it is the Bailiffs who ask about upcoming ANPR Operations, not the Police asking them, and it's the Police who decide the location, times etc., and drivers are informed when the Police have completed their checks.

and the MPS which has a mission statement of 'Making London safe for all the people we serve' has no business helping scum like that.

Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Police roadside checks and bailiffs - intersting FOI
« Reply #16 on: 19 April, 2014, 07:58:49 PM »
I'm not sure how you work out that the police officer looked "proper pissed off" when they all had their faces obscured by the BBC?

I was referring to the video below. The interesting stuff starts at 4 minutes 50 seconds. No faces obscured here and that is one pissed off copper who walks away at the end. He knows the bloke has a valid legal point and that he had been caught on camera admitting they were helping the bailiffs.

Check out the sick look on the copper's face at 6 Minutes 38 seconds when the bloke asks him why he is helping the bailiffs with a civil matter. The copper took a proper spanking from the driver and was proper pissed off about it.

WE ARE WATCHING YOU

EDW2000

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Re: Police roadside checks and bailiffs - intersting FOI
« Reply #17 on: 19 April, 2014, 08:13:06 PM »
I'm not sure how you work out that the police officer looked "proper pissed off" when they all had their faces obscured by the BBC?

I was referring to the video below. The interesting stuff starts at 4 minutes 50 seconds. No faces obscured here and that is one pissed off copper who walks away at the end. He knows the bloke has a valid legal point and that he had been caught on camera admitting they were helping the bailiffs.

Check out the sick look on the copper's face at 6 Minutes 38 seconds when the bloke asks him why he is helping the bailiffs with a civil matter. The copper took a proper spanking from the driver and was proper pissed off about it.





I am going to ask the MPS for their comment on the utube video. We have a shoulder number, this should be enough to start foi'ing etc.

In the meantime, I have asked mopac for their policy position on assisting bailiffs.

The purpose of roadside checks is to disrupt criminality, how do pcn's fit in to this?

Offline DastardlyDick

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Re: Police roadside checks and bailiffs - intersting FOI
« Reply #18 on: 20 April, 2014, 09:03:03 PM »
It's up to you of course, but you might be better off asking the Met. what their Policy is rather than MOPAC, who will probably say something along the lines of 'Operational matters are decided by the Metropolitan Police, not MOPAC'.

I believe the theory is that people who evade payment of 'fines' are usually involved in other criminal activity - before I get flamed, I personally don't agree with this.

Offline DastardlyDick

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Re: Police roadside checks and bailiffs - intersting FOI
« Reply #19 on: 20 April, 2014, 11:28:50 PM »
I'm not sure how you work out that the police officer looked "proper pissed off" when they all had their faces obscured by the BBC?

I was referring to the video below. The interesting stuff starts at 4 minutes 50 seconds. No faces obscured here and that is one pissed off copper who walks away at the end. He knows the bloke has a valid legal point and that he had been caught on camera admitting they were helping the bailiffs.

Check out the sick look on the copper's face at 6 Minutes 38 seconds when the bloke asks him why he is helping the bailiffs with a civil matter. The copper took a proper spanking from the driver and was proper pissed off about it.



It's obviously very subjective, but I do happen to know that officer, and that Isn't what he looks like when he's "proper pissed off"!

Offline Ewan Hoosami

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Re: Police roadside checks and bailiffs - intersting FOI
« Reply #20 on: 21 April, 2014, 06:27:36 AM »
I'm just glad that street crime in Croydon has been eradicated to the extent that the local rozzers now have time to help private contractors intimidate the drivers of specific vehicles.

Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

Offline DastardlyDick

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Re: Police roadside checks and bailiffs - intersting FOI
« Reply #21 on: 21 April, 2014, 11:38:20 AM »
I'm just glad that street crime in Croydon has been eradicated to the extent that the local rozzers now have time to help private contractors intimidate the drivers of specific vehicles.



That's why they use ST Officers and/or it's done on overtime, although the video BE was on about is from Hounslow.

Offline Pat Pending

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Re: Police roadside checks and bailiffs - intersting FOI
« Reply #22 on: 21 April, 2014, 04:27:01 PM »
Hounslow, Croydon, Barnet or any other fecking place in the country it matters not.  The Police are Bang out of order as well as exceeding their powers! I really hope this is tested in a court of Law soon. We will never accept a Police state!
This is England FFS not Egypt or Syria. It makes my Piss boil!!
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Beer in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up,  totally worn out and screaming "WOO-HOO, what a  ride!!"

EDW2000

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Re: Police roadside checks and bailiffs - intersting FOI
« Reply #23 on: 21 April, 2014, 05:08:44 PM »
the lawfulness would seem to turn on the reason for the stop.

if plod is anpr'ing drivers for tax disc etc. then drivers are fair game for bailiff scum to approach and beg for money like some like some grotty squeegee merchant/shit rose seller, on the north circ. road.

if, they are stopping purely on bailiff info then that is unlawful I think.


Offline Ewan Hoosami

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Re: Police roadside checks and bailiffs - intersting FOI
« Reply #24 on: 21 April, 2014, 05:37:28 PM »
You're on the right lines with that EDW. I'm sure the cozzers have to have suspicion of something of interest to the Police for a stop to be lawful. It is clear that only vehicles of interest to the, ahem, squeegee merchant* are being stopped.

*That's about right, spot on. :aplude:
Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

Offline DastardlyDick

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Re: Police roadside checks and bailiffs - intersting FOI
« Reply #25 on: 21 April, 2014, 06:09:41 PM »
Section 163 Road Traffic Act 1988:-

"Power of police to stop vehicles.

(1)A person driving a motor vehicle on a road must stop the vehicle on being required to do so by a constable in uniform. .
(2)A person riding a cycle on a road must stop the cycle on being required to do so by a constable in uniform. .
(3)If a person fails to comply with this section he is guilty of an offence."

and Section 165:-

"Power of constables to obtain names and addresses of drivers and others, and to require production of evidence of insurance or security and test certificates.

(1)Any of the following persons— .
(a)a person driving a motor vehicle (other than an invalid carriage) on a road, or .
(b)a person whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe to have been the driver of a motor vehicle (other than an invalid carriage) at a time when an accident occurred owing to its presence on a road, or .
(c)a person whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe to have committed an offence in relation to the use on a road of a motor vehicle (other than an invalid carriage), .
must, on being so required by a constable, give his name and address and the name and address of the owner of the vehicle and produce the following documents for examination."

So the Police have the Power to stop any vehicle, at any time and require the driver to produce his/her driving documents on a road, and doesn't need a reason/suspision to do so. If that makes the UK a "Police State" then it's been one since 1988.
« Last Edit: 21 April, 2014, 06:29:21 PM by DastardlyDick »

Offline Ewan Hoosami

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Re: Police roadside checks and bailiffs - intersting FOI
« Reply #26 on: 21 April, 2014, 06:28:13 PM »
Thanks Dick. I assumed that PACE might have added reasonable suspicion to that but I was thinking bollocks. I should do some research before posting or I'm likely to find myself as a BPA Ltd member.



The whole thing still smells bad all the same.
Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

EDW2000

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Re: Police roadside checks and bailiffs - intersting FOI
« Reply #27 on: 21 April, 2014, 10:07:34 PM »
Section 163 Road Traffic Act 1988:-

"Power of police to stop vehicles.

(1)A person driving a motor vehicle on a road must stop the vehicle on being required to do so by a constable in uniform. .
(2)A person riding a cycle on a road must stop the cycle on being required to do so by a constable in uniform. .
(3)If a person fails to comply with this section he is guilty of an offence."

and Section 165:-

"Power of constables to obtain names and addresses of drivers and others, and to require production of evidence of insurance or security and test certificates.

(1)Any of the following persons— .
(a)a person driving a motor vehicle (other than an invalid carriage) on a road, or .
(b)a person whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe to have been the driver of a motor vehicle (other than an invalid carriage) at a time when an accident occurred owing to its presence on a road, or .
(c)a person whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe to have committed an offence in relation to the use on a road of a motor vehicle (other than an invalid carriage), .
must, on being so required by a constable, give his name and address and the name and address of the owner of the vehicle and produce the following documents for examination."

So the Police have the Power to stop any vehicle, at any time and require the driver to produce his/her driving documents on a road, and doesn't need a reason/suspision to do so. If that makes the UK a "Police State" then it's been one since 1988.


The stop must be carried out for a reason, and that reason must be related to police work and be articulable.

Stops which don't meet this test are oppressive.

Motorist 'Why did you stop me?'

PC Plod 'Because you've got massive tits and I fancy a feel'

Is that lawful?

Clearly, not.


Offline scalyback

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Re: Police roadside checks and bailiffs - intersting FOI
« Reply #28 on: 21 April, 2014, 11:53:23 PM »


Motorist 'Why did you stop me?'

PC Plod 'Because you've got massive tits and I fancy a feel'

Is that lawful?

Clearly, not.
[/quote]

I think you might be mixing 'Lawful' up with 'Handful' In that last post?

Offline BGB

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Re: Police roadside checks and bailiffs - intersting FOI
« Reply #29 on: 22 April, 2014, 06:38:43 AM »
So Dick, where is the power to detain the vehicle once it is stopped?

 


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