Park Street - Luton...entrapment ??

[prjohnsonnn]

Would appreciate some advice from people on here please who will know way more about this subject than me.

.... i came across this junction in Luton town centre.......... as you approach the lights here as hsown in the photos, there is no warning in advance about the road straight ahead being no entry and which is entry only for buses and taxis. 24 hrs a day.  There is no advance warning at the lights as you approach them and only when in the junction itself can you see across the road the blue circle stating buses and taxis only.  so it transpires you HAVE to turn either left or right at these lights and you cannot go straight ahead - and when you are approachiong the lights there is NO indication of this .

interestingly if you approach the junction from the other two roads on either side of the photo they BOTH have no left turn (and right turn ) signs showing as appropriate to stop you going down the bus lane.

I approached the junction last night in the dark from the direction of the photos and there are NO lit signs anywhere showing that the road ahead is taxis and buses only.............. and went straight ahead and will have picked up a anpr penalty no doubt. !!

so.............. any help gratefully received chaps on how this signage fares here and whether it is 'legal' etc ?

Thanks

PJ

[DastardlyDick]

There is a sign outside "The Moulders" pub which gives the required information.

I would wait until you actually receive a PCN, then either come back on here and/or post it up on www.pepipoo.com and see what the boys and girls on there have to say.

[BGB]

The sign outside "The Moulders" is some distance away.

In any event, the bus gate signage and markings are wrong, using bus gate signage with bus lane markings.

If you get a PCN, we will be glad to help appeal this as it is definitely poorly, and probably illegally signed.

[Ewan Hoosami]

I doubt it would even pass for bus gate signage. There's only one sign partially obscured by a black pole in front of it. The council would struggle to get this past TPT.

[prjohnsonnn]

Thanks for the replies so far.  Will see what turns up in the post

what does TPT mean ? 

I went back onto google maps and yes i now see that way back down the road outside the Moulders pub is indeed a sign.  see below pic.....But thats about 200 yds away? !!!!   Why on earth would they not put one by the junction unless of course they are 'encouraging' someone to trangress??

if they do indeed come thru with a penalty notice i would be really up for pushing back on this with them .  How do we find out whether anyone else has been 'done' here in recent months?  FOI request ?

Thanks

[Ewan Hoosami]

TPT is the Traffic Penalty Tribunal who are the independent adjudicators which stop Councils from taking liberties. Don't worry about that for now though as the Council have to send you the TPT appeal forms along with their automatic appeal rejection.

The 'advance warning sign' should at the very minimum be at least nearer to the junction and be on both sides of the road. The single sign could easily be obscured by an emerging van. Also the road ahead should ideally be barred with 'no entry' signs accompanied by an exception plate for the buses and taxis. In any event, restriction signs need to be on both corners facing you. Clicky my linky for something more appropriate,

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.522624,0.072559,3a,75y,72.27h,81.02t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1smfxoZYDVey_PkyVQchywhw!2e0

Also, modern art aficionados will love the installation at the other end of Luton's little honeypot,

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.878163,-0.412597,3a,75y,201.6h,76.4t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sL9yglt1xYtwBnmC2sSF3Zg!2e0

[scalyback]

Not to be taken seriously, but my reply would be...

Dear (oh dear) Luton council.

Thank you for your communication of the xx/xx/xxxx.

Rather than asking for payment from me for some 'contravention' of the traffic regulation, I think it more useful for me to suggest that you set aside an amount of money that is equal to the sum of the 'fines' that you have taken for this supposed 'offence'.

Your signs are woefully inadequate, as would be seconded by the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, who would probably not need more than a cursory glance at the evidence over tea break.

I would like to submit a freedom of information request on how much money you have creamed from motorists from this 'contravention', to be sent to Television's Parking Mad production company.

Thank a lot,


 

[The Bald Eagle]

FoI request has been sent.

[Overlord]

FoI request has been sent.

I'd like to see that reply

[The Bald Eagle]

FoI request has been sent.

I'd like to see that reply

Don't worry. You will.

[The Bald Eagle]

Here is the reply to the FoIR as promised. Enforcement began some time in April 2011.

-----------------------------------------------

2011/12

April - 2
May - 11
June - 11
July - 67
August - 48
September - 56
October - 57
November - 147
December - 104
January - 111
February - 81
March - 141

Total - 836

2012/13

April - 82
May - 53
June - 66
July - 95
August - 54
September - 76
October - 85
November - 59
December - 66
January - 73
February - 86
March - 98

Total - 893

2013/14

April - 143
May - 101
June - 24
July - 130
August - 22
September - 80
October - 105
November - 96
December - 83
January - 107
February - 86
March - 80

Total - 1,057

2014/15

April - 100
May - 59
June - 72
July - 105
August - 104
September - 91
October - 123
November - 34
December - 9
January - 99
February - 102
March - ?

Total - 898 + ?

[DastardlyDick]

I can only assume from the OPs silence that he/she never received a PCN.

[Ewan Hoosami]

Either that or they got what they wanted and decided to never speak to any of us again.

[prjohnsonnn]

Hi Peoples.... just saw this.  No i didnt receive a ticket... was quite looking forward toi getting my teeth into it... Many thanks for all your help.

What is / was the time limit for me to receive a ticket notice after the actual event occurring?

Thanks

[Ewan Hoosami]

Welcome back. I've never given much thought to the time limit so had to look it up. My flabber is officially gasted.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20111005163411/http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/regional/buses/gen/coll_provisionalguidanceonbuslan/isionalguidanceonbuslane3570.pdf

more specifically, Page 23,

SERVING OF PENALTY CHARGE NOTICES
6.19. The PCN must be served before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the
detection date unless the authority has made an application to DVLA for relevant
particulars regarding the owner of the vehicle and these particulars have not been
supplied before the end of the 28 day period beginning with the detection date. In
this event, the authority shall continue to be entitled to serve a PCN for a further
period of 6 months after the end of the 28 day period beginning with the detection
date.  

Short answer: 7 months in the event of DVLA being institutionally useless. So 7 months then!  

Although this scenario is shocking it is equally unlikely. The probability is that you won't hear anything now but Councils do like to push the boundaries of pedantry.