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General Category => General No To Mob Discussion => Topic started by: jonesy on 30 June, 2015, 09:44:56 AM

Title: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: jonesy on 30 June, 2015, 09:44:56 AM
Hi All
Would you like to have a read of the following and comment /advise/ recommend what action to take <_>.

Someone parked their car in a small car park in Sennen Cove Cornwall( top end near the lifeboat station) The charge for parking appeared to be a reasonable £1.00 for a couple of hours :aplude: which is even payable on a Sunday W:T:F:. The person went to pay and after finding the machine was playing up by rejecting his pound coin <bashy2>, he tried another couple of coins, Eventuality the whirred and clicked and a message appeared in the small window. W:T:F: "This Transaction is compete" but no ticket was produced <_>. The person tried again to obtain a ticket and whilst doing so spoke with another punter using the adjacent machine which also appeared to be giving him problems. :bashy: <Flogging> Having tried again the same message appeared Transaction complete.
As it was quiet and plenty of spaces around 1100 am he decided to have a wander to a local café form an all day breakfast. <Yes!> This was followed by a walk up to the headland to absorb the wonderful vista laid out before him. He was at one with nature and following a moment of reflection of his dearly departed wife made his way back to the car, and drove off.
Back at the accommodation some 50 miles away he notice something stuck to the windscreen and under the drivers side wiper blade. Closer examination reviled and yellow sticky bag containing parking ticket (Picture 1)
Feeling extremely angry <Swearyangry> he couldn't understand why he had received this notice, but as it was a Sunday was unable to contact anyone. As he was holiday the ticket was forgotten about <Whistle> until Saturday 28th June when a letter postmarked from Truro arrived :o which is demanding that £100 :o be paid a penalty for paying the original charge. ( picture 2) it also states that that if not paid enforcement action will be taken and additional cots incurred.

He would now like to make the following observations.

The ticker was not clearly displayed on the car as it wasn't seen until arriving back at the hotel. It was placed under the wiper blade but as the a below the eye level of the bonnet and in a recess and hidden from view from the driver.

The ticket machine was faulty it either didn't accept the coinage correctly ( two or three pound coins were used until the machine started to work. No ticket was printed out and the message in the window was very ambiguous.

3 The original date of the incident was 26th April and he only just received 28th June any correspondence in relation to the matter

Over to you guys he awaits your comments etc.       
 other photos to follow
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: jonesy on 30 June, 2015, 09:46:43 AM
more photos
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: jonesy on 30 June, 2015, 09:47:47 AM
I more
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: Ewan Hoosami on 30 June, 2015, 07:25:07 PM
All your photos are of the same sPeCulative iNvoice. Do you have anything else such as signage, etc.?

Keeper liability does not apply for this one as the NTK was served more than 56 days after the NTD.

8 (5) The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 28 days following the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to driver was given.

Note this is The IPC Ltd kangaroo court so will reject anything. It's very doable though and you'll get plenty of help.

(http://www.pic4ever.com/images/grouphug.gif)
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: jonesy on 01 July, 2015, 11:50:17 AM
 Thanks  Ewan Hoosami

No photos of the signage was taken as the person didn't think there was a need to do so.  they only other photos are copies of the threatening letter which was received on 27th June some  2 months after the incident.
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: Ewan Hoosami on 01 July, 2015, 04:45:44 PM
OK so here's a heads up on the Insidious Parasite Corporation,

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/independent-parking-committee-kangaroo.html (http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/independent-parking-committee-kangaroo.html)

I think you can understand that whatever your case to The IPC Ltd, you will be judged guilty so it matters not whether your friend appeals. The 'threatening letter' you have is what passes for a Notice to Keeper in the weasel's world. As I said before, keeper liability does not apply as the NTK was served outside of the relevant period as per para 8 (5) of sch 4. If your friend does decide to appeal, keep it as third person and keep away from what actually happened. Something like this,

Dear appeals department,

The registered keeper was unaware of the parking event described in the Notice to keeper dated 25/6/15. You are now invited to cancel your speculative invoice along with any associated action.

The Registered Keeper

If you ignore, the next bit of bog paper you receive will be an assertion that the keeper has not responded to the NTK so keeper liability now applies. This, as you know, is bollocks. You can respond at this point or continue to ignore.

I, personally, would get the above appeal rejected by Armtrac and then make the keeper liability issue clear to The IPC Ltd baristas. Mick Cooke (Armtrac head weasel) has to shell out £15 to IPC and his card is also marked that you are not the usual pushover. You should however warm up to the concept that this could end in a court appearance.
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: jonesy on 31 July, 2015, 01:07:52 PM
 Having chose to ignore the previous letter. Another scary letter arrived today  W:T:F: what do you think should be done <_> I don't think surrender is an option  <Surrender> what to do  :idea:
Jonesy
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: Ewan Hoosami on 31 July, 2015, 02:26:58 PM
what do you think should be done?


F :o ck all is the short answer. You are now at the stage where you have nothing to lose by continuing to ignore. Any protest on your part will fall on deaf ears so I wouldn't even be arsed wasting my time. Mick Cooke is now in the unenviable position where the only person he can pursue for this is the driver and since the registered keeper was not the driver on the day I'd say that Mick can go and f :o ck himself. He is known for issuing court proceedings but with the right defence he has no hope on this one.

First up is lack of keeper liability. See my reply number 3 above. I have not had the benefit of any photos but on the whole, signage is completely inadequate (especially for weasels like Mick Cooke) I'd question the signage because the weasel will have to provide photographic evidence which we can then comment on. We can also question Armtrac's right to issue tickets on the land. We want to see a valid contract between the landowner and Armtrac giving them permission to pursue victims in their own name.

I have plenty more if Mick fancies a go including Town and Country planning regs. Oh and a quick FYI for you, that letter is about as scary as an episode of Pingu.


(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/agk/images/b/b3/Pingu.gif/revision/latest?cb=20130530234756)
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: Ewan Hoosami on 31 July, 2015, 03:22:48 PM
Yup just checked on the Cornwall.gov planning portal and no consent exists for car park signage anywhere in Sennen Cove. Any weasel (it says person in the legislation but weasel is more appropriate in this case) who displays signage without the relevant consent under the Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007 (as amended) commits a criminal offence in doing so. As M'learned Eagle will tell you, if a crime has to be committed to create a contract then that contract is illegal and unenforceable.

Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: BGB on 31 July, 2015, 03:42:38 PM
As m' learned friend Mr Hoosami states, you are now in ignore mode.  Ignore everything except stamped court papers (which originate from Northampton Court).  However, the weasels would need to be exeptionally stupid to expose their protection racket to a proper court.
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: The Bald Eagle on 01 August, 2015, 03:39:11 AM
If they are wise they will realise that they are in a hole and should stop digging.

If they are wise they are reading this.

If they are wise they should feck off now because this is one that may set a precedent they wouldn't want.

If they are unwise, perhaps you should give certain people a call BGB. ;)
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: jonesy on 01 September, 2015, 04:21:59 PM
Hi All
with regards to the Cornwall ticket
Today a letter from TnC services was received photo 1 and 2  who state are the parking firms clients as you can see they are now demanding "IMMEDIATE " action today (1st Sept 2015) or they will be contacting their litigation department.
There is some very interesting information on the reverse of the letter which provide what litigation means
apart from the ignore it, burn it, which I suppose is the same thing what if anything should be the next/best course of action 
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: jonesy on 01 September, 2015, 06:51:42 PM
Photo of sign and charges
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: The Bald Eagle on 02 September, 2015, 12:02:27 PM
Have just read this thread again and for the life of me I can't find any reference to the fact that Jonesy's mate had the right to appeal to Armtrac, or to the IPC's kangaroo court until after the time to do so had expired.

PoFa Schedule 4 states:

(5)In sub-paragraph (2)(d) the reference to arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints includes—

(a)any procedures offered by the creditor for dealing informally with representations by the driver about the notice or any matter contained in it; and

(b)any arrangements under which disputes or complaints (however described) may be referred by the driver to independent adjudication or arbitration.


Or am I missing something?

If not it is something else to be thrown in the mix if they are stoopid enough to send this one to court.

Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: jonesy on 06 September, 2015, 09:12:25 AM
Hi
Well they don't seem want to give up! yet another letter, this one came yesterday.It appears there will be 7 days from post mark (03/09/2015) the then legal proceedings will be taken
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: Ewan Hoosami on 06 September, 2015, 12:03:04 PM
……………………. then legal proceedings will be taken.


(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/ben10fanfiction/images/9/94/HOW_ABOUT_NO.png/revision/latest?cb=20130228015354)

"Notice of intention to advise client to issue summons"

Amtrac is basically Mick C(r)ooke who made a name for himself (as well as the one beginning with C) by taking local cornish people with little parking knowledge to court and beating them. Now I'm not saying he won't but it's highly unlikely that he's going to drive all the way up here to ask a judge to award him £100 only for us to defend your mate and send Mick back down to cornwall with f :o ck all. Just saying.

Let's say he does fancy an away match. The Notice To Keeper was served outside of the terms of PoFA so there is no keeper liability. He's welcome to pursue the driver but he has no claim against the keeper. Even if he did, the signage has no planning permission under Town and Country Planning Act so he has committed a criminal offence by displaying the signs. Any contract that is formed as the result of a criminal offence is not enforceable. Then there's BE's point about ADR Which the courts would likely refer to before they would hear the case. Most cases I've dealt with never show an image of the car and a sign in the same shot. This is crucial to demonstrate that the driver would have been aware of the terms. Then there's whether or not some shabby little weasel has authority to pursue motorists on land he has no interest in. Even if he bounds across all of those hurdles and many more that we will put in his way, he still has to hope the Supreme Court side with Parking(sh)Eye(sters).

That letter is basically a template and part of a large chain that is sent out to all potential victims and is designed to alarm and distress victims into paying. If your mate loses, and it's a very big if (24pt to be exact), none of the actions described in points 1 to 5 would take place because your mate would simply cough up at that point. He'd cough up the £100 charge asked for and maybe an extra £50 expenses but none of the escalating charges threatened in the scary letter chain.

You can expect some more, ahem, 'scary' letters but just ignore them. The only one not to ignore is a claim form from the court, we'll need to deal with that. Anything else from private limited companies, tip 'em bollocks.
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: The Bald Eagle on 07 September, 2015, 09:54:00 AM
 <Yeahthat>
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: Parking Prankster on 22 September, 2015, 03:25:45 PM
Just to advise that this is the second similar report I have had about Sennen Cove harbour car park. (Although it could also be the same person twice, I suppose, as the first report was not named)

I believe this to be a variant on Ghost ticketing. I suspect the attendant removes the tickets from the machine and hides. Drivers pay, but nothing comes out. When they leave, he tickets them. Before the attendant goes, he puts the tickets back.

I suspect a dashcam record of this car park could be very revealing.


Google Maps show the signage in this car park is non-existant


Might well be worth contacting the harbour master, explaining what you suspect happened, asking him if any similar events have been reported, and asking that in the circumstances, can he get the ticket cancelled as the driver paid (twice)

‘Sea Call’ Cove Road
Penzance,
Cornwall TR19 7BT

Tel: 07802 155306 (home and 24hr)
Email: admin@sennen-cove.com
Website:  www.sennen-cove.com/harbour.htm (http://www.sennen-cove.com/harbour.htm)

As I understand it, the harbour master tried to get other parking companies to quote, but others were only interested if it was a deal where he paid nothing and they made all their income from parking charges.

Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: Parking Prankster on 22 September, 2015, 03:43:30 PM
How to deal with TNC.

Unlike ultra dodgy company Debt Recovery Plus, TNC are members of the CSA. You can therefore require them to refer any debt back to the operator. If they don't do this, you can refer them to the CSA. After doing this a few times, one of their managers, Gary Collett, asked me to contact him directly rather than go through his minions. gary.collett@transnationalltd.com

So something like this will probably get results.

Dear Mr Collett
Re Invoice xyz

The debt is denied. Please refer the matter back to your principal

The debt is denied because the driver purchased a ticket but the parking machine did not emit the ticket. The required fee was therefore paid.

Please note that I will raise a complaint to the CSA if you do not refer this matter back to the operator. Please also note that as the debt is denied debt collection is not appropriate. I am fully aware that you work on a no-win no-fee basis so I suggest that to save costs for all parties you pass the matter back to the operator.




Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: The Bald Eagle on 22 September, 2015, 03:44:32 PM
@Jonesy

Further to what Penryn council have done once they realised they can't issue private parking tickets on public land via the same company (Armtrac) (see: http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php?topic=5711.msg34281#msg34281 (http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php?topic=5711.msg34281#msg34281) ), your mate might want to have a look at who owns the car park in question. ;)
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: Parking Prankster on 29 September, 2015, 09:45:11 AM
Another AS Parking scam has been reported to me. A car park offers £5 for 24 hour parking, but the machine will only take £4 for 3 hours. St Endellion main car park, Port Isaac.

If anyone is in the area, a video confirming this would be useful!
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: jonesy on 20 April, 2016, 01:07:03 PM
Interesting development!!

Today "my friend" had a call on his mobile  from an number he did not recognise so it was ignored. A message notification then was received so he listened to the message which went like this this " Name...  This is Frankie  from TNC collections it is important that you return this call today on 01242 214645  quoting  reference P9902069. call terminated  I see from parking prankster in his post dated 22 September that he has dealings with TNC before. so I'm wondering want would be the best course of action t advise my friend. He has not returned the call.   
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: BGB on 20 April, 2016, 02:09:29 PM
1. Never, ever, ever phone a debt collector about a private parking ticket.
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: The Bald Eagle on 20 April, 2016, 05:50:18 PM
1. Never, ever, ever phone a debt collector about a private parking ticket.

 <Yeahthat> <Yeahthat> <Yeahthat> <Yeahthat> <Yeahthat> <Yeahthat> <Yeahthat> <Yeahthat>


And BTW, where did he get your friend's mobile phone number?
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: jonesy on 22 April, 2016, 02:40:54 PM
Very good F$%@ing question BE
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: The Bald Eagle on 22 April, 2016, 04:05:17 PM
Very good F$%@ing question BE

A data protection breach perhaps?

A little word in the Information Commissioner's shell like might be in order. ;)

Tell your mate not to wipe the voicemail message as he will need it as evidence.
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: jonesy on 03 May, 2016, 10:35:35 AM
Very good F$%@ing question BE

A data protection breach perhaps?

A little word in the Information Commissioner's shell like might be in order. ;)

Tell your mate not to wipe the voicemail message as he will need it as evidence.


Another phone call  has been received (28th April) this time from a Glasgow number 01412 804900 which was not answered, so a voice mail message was left requiring the person to contact TNC on 01242 214645 quoting the reference number....  no name of caller given , and  no please or thank you.   
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: The Bald Eagle on 03 May, 2016, 10:54:42 AM
Very good F$%@ing question BE

A data protection breach perhaps?

A little word in the Information Commissioner's shell like might be in order. ;)

Tell your mate not to wipe the voicemail message as he will need it as evidence.

Another one for the evidence pack.


Another phone call  has been received (28th April) this time from a Glasgow number 01412 804900 which was not answered, so a voice mail message was left requiring the person to contact TNC on 01242 214645 quoting the reference number....  no name of caller given , and  no please or thank you.   
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: Ewan Hoosami on 03 May, 2016, 11:45:36 AM
I will refer you to The Prankster's excellent advice,

How to deal with TNC.

Unlike ultra dodgy company Debt Recovery Plus, TNC are members of the CSA. You can therefore require them to refer any debt back to the operator. If they don't do this, you can refer them to the CSA. After doing this a few times, one of their managers, Gary Collett, asked me to contact him directly rather than go through his minions. gary.collett@transnationalltd.com

So something like this will probably get results.

Dear Mr Collett
Re Invoice xyz

The debt is denied. Please refer the matter back to your principal

The debt is denied because the driver purchased a ticket but the parking machine did not emit the ticket. The required fee was therefore paid.

Please note that I will raise a complaint to the CSA if you do not refer this matter back to the operator. Please also note that as the debt is denied debt collection is not appropriate. I am fully aware that you work on a no-win no-fee basis so I suggest that to save costs for all parties you pass the matter back to the operator.

Obviously this should be done by written means, preferably electronic.

No-one should ever ever ever never ever ever never never ever never ever, phew!, speak to a parking wea$el on the phone. This only benefits the wea$el as they can threaten their prey without there being any record of what was said.

Mick C(r)ooke is a massive bellend and won't be taking anyone to court (because he is a massive bellend).
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: jonesy on 10 May, 2016, 10:06:46 AM
Another phone call from the Cheltenham number (01242214645) received on Thursday 5th May at 1828hours  but as the phone was already being used the caller hung up and didn't leave a message.!!!!!
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: jonesy on 13 May, 2016, 11:13:14 AM
Yet  another call ( today at 1100 hrs)  from the Glasgow number asking the person to contact them urgently on 01242 214645. The caller a Scottish speaking lady stated that Mr xxxxxxx should contact them urgently quoting the reference number and  by the close of business today 5 o'clock and then the rest of the message was garbled and said something about cooperation!!!!   
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: jonesy on 15 September, 2016, 01:47:16 PM
persistent buggers TNC people they are still making calls each time thy ring they say something like... this is a message for $$$$$$$ please contact us urgently. some times  they mention the reference number is given sometimes not
with regards to how they obtained a personal mobile number
The information commissioners website doesn't appear to allow any further action unless you contact the company to try and resolve the issue. 
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: jonesy on 27 April, 2019, 11:57:57 AM
Hi all
 Well bugger me, BW legal who are acting on behalf of Armtrac Security/KBT Cornwall ltd have sent a letter reminding the person who parked the car,in Sennan Cove  way back in April 2015 that they still owe £160 and if its not paid in 28days then further legal action will be taken. The letter very similar to a previous one threatens court action and possible CCJ's blah blah blah .
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: The Bald Eagle on 27 April, 2019, 03:59:17 PM
They're 'avin' a bubble mate. <Tosser>
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: jonesy on 30 April, 2019, 11:52:42 AM
Looking back through this post I note that originally TNC were going to pursue /deal with this matter, and now its BW legal, anyone care to comment regarding this change and who they are etc.

 
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: The Bald Eagle on 30 April, 2019, 02:47:04 PM
Looking back through this post I note that originally TNC were going to pursue /deal with this matter, and now its BW legal, anyone care to comment regarding this change and who they are etc.

Pranky has quite a few things to say about these chancers. Try clicking on the link below but if it doesn't work go to the Prankster's site and search BW Legal.


https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/search?q=bw+legal

Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: scalyback on 05 May, 2019, 01:01:02 PM
Just a quicky, but if they have passed on your address to the new company, then as far as I recall, that is in breach of the DVLA's conditions? Companies can obtain your info through a DVLKA request, but are not allowed to pass said info on?
Or has the law changed? It may be that the new company have your details illegally, somebody please confirm...
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: jonesy on 20 May, 2019, 08:56:23 PM
Further development....
a letter has been received with a heading in bold type Letter of Claim
it now states that bw Legal have been instructed by KBT Cornwall t/a Armtrac are to commence legal action in  the form of issuing a claim against the person at the county court in respect of the above debt.
it goes on to say that such legal action may result in "the person"  being liable to court fees solicitors c
fees and statutory interest which they estimate as £107.33 plus the original charge of £160 total £267.33

They further state that payment of the £160 or reasons for not paying are required by 14 June 2019 to avoid the legal action.

the rest of the letter contain details on hoi wto pay, setting up an on line account,

Atick box form asking if....  Box A i agrere tio the debt.
                                        Box B I owe some of it
                                                explain why you dont owe as much ....

                                        Box C I dont know whether i owe the debt.. if ticked go to section 3

                                        Box D I dispute thye debt... explian why provide as much detail as possible etc..

                                        Box E I will pay what I owe.

                                         Box F I will pay but i need  more time.

                                         my proposed payment method fpr repayment are.....
                                         
                                         Box G I am getting or intending to get deby advice.
 ec etc etc


and on the reverse page there is income and expenditure form which ask you to provide income details priority expenditure, household and living expenditure and surplus/deficit.


also enclosed is Annex 1 information sheet which states that

You have recieved this notice because a business intends to take you to court in relation to a dept. This notice tells you what to do next. including how to avoid court action

It provides debt advice information such as citizens advice, civil legal advice line, National debt line, Christians against poverty line,


Over to you guys for your surmising  .





Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: The Bald Eagle on 22 May, 2019, 08:16:55 AM
Bear with me. I'm not an expert but I know some people who are... ;)
Title: Re: Cornwall Parking Charge
Post by: Ewan Hoosami on 22 May, 2019, 08:38:52 AM
Whereabouts your mate live Jonesy? Don't say GlenMcScruddock or anywhere like that  <thinking>