Author Topic: Southampton Way PCN help?  (Read 2562 times)

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Offline ElleWoods

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Southampton Way PCN help?
« on: 08 May, 2012, 07:22:52 PM »
Hi everyone,

I replied to a post by Esinem but thought I'd also post generally in case anyone is able to help me...

I'm a newbie here and I hope people don't mind me posting, but I received a PCN for parking in this bay on 21 January 2012 (by a $CAMera car). I had looked at the sign but obviously misread it as they took photos of me parking at 12.49pm (11 minutes before parking is allowed! I think I must have read it as not being allowed to park from 1 pm).

I saw this board and the posts by several forum members and then wrote a letter to Southwark Council appealing the ticket as (a) the PCN was issued by a CCTV camera contrary to statutory guidance which states that CCTV enforcement should only be used when where enforcement is difficult or sensitive and and CEO enforcement is not practical; (b) the signage is not legally compliant because there are no signs warning that CCTV enforcement is being carried out in the area; (c) the bay is not properly marked for its use (citing the Angol -v- Southwark Council case); and (d) that the wording on the sign is unclear and too high up for a driver to read (thought I'd just throw this is for good measure!).

I also noticed that when they sent me the PCN, they had not taken a picture of the sign, but just the pole the sign was on.

However, the Council wrote back rejecting my appeal as: (a) statutory guidance is only guidance and the failure of a Council to follow it does not constitute grounds for appeal; (b) There is no legal requirement for signs warning of camera enforcement; and (c) the signage is approved under the RTRA 1984.

I want to appeal further to PATAS but just wondered whether anyone knows of any other successful appeals or other grounds that I could appeal on?

Thanks so much in advance for your help.

Elle.

Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Southampton Way PCN help?
« Reply #1 on: 08 May, 2012, 07:28:13 PM »
Hi Elle and welcome

I have contacted Esinem and hopefully he will get back to you soon. Meanwhile, please keep your eye on the forum for suggestions from other members. E.g. there is a TPT case where the adjudicator allowed the appeal of another of our members (Dodgie) in Southend on the grounds that CCTV was used where a foot CEO could have been deployed. See these threads:

http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php/topic,2094.msg17082.html#msg17082

http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php/topic,2088.msg17056.html#msg17056


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Offline Ewan Hoosami

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Re: Southampton Way PCN help?
« Reply #2 on: 08 May, 2012, 11:09:28 PM »
Hi Elle and welcome. You will get a warm welcome from one and all on here and feel free to post whenever you like. The statutory guidance is here;

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/tma-part-6-cpe-statutory-guidance/betterprkstatutoryguid.pdf

Go to page 3 of the guidance and you will see the introduction and legal basis. Point no. 6 states: "Where the Guidance says that something must be done, this means that it is a requirement in either primary or secondary legislation, and a footnote gives the appropriate provision. In all other instances, section 87 of the TMA stipulates that local authorities must have regard to the information contained in this Guidance."

The key phrase being "local authorities must have regard to the information contained in this Guidance." They must demonstrate their understanding of the guidance and be able to justify why they have chosen to go against it. For the council to say it is only guidance and they don't have to follow it is not legitimate justification. I think I vaguely remember our Nigel having a successful appeal on these very grounds. I am sure we'll be hearing from him.

 ;D
Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

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Re: Southampton Way PCN help?
« Reply #3 on: 09 May, 2012, 09:16:42 AM »
Hi Ellie

Welcome. There will be a forthcoming PaTAS adjudication on this bay soon. We will keep you posted.

Ewan is correct. Southwark must demonstrate that they have regard to the guidance.

Put in your appeal.
« Last Edit: 09 May, 2012, 09:20:58 AM by Nigel W »

Offline ElleWoods

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Re: Southampton Way PCN help?
« Reply #4 on: 09 May, 2012, 01:46:22 PM »
Thank you all so much - your replies are really helpful. I will definitely put in my appeal and I will keep you posted. I'm sick and tired of Southwark Council trying to $cam motorists illegally!

Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Southampton Way PCN help?
« Reply #5 on: 09 May, 2012, 03:02:31 PM »
Elle

You might want to check out this thread too.

http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php/topic,2107.0.html
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Offline ElleWoods

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Re: Southampton Way PCN help?
« Reply #6 on: 14 May, 2012, 05:37:27 PM »
Thanks Bald Eagle :)

 


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