Author Topic: Big brother is watching the motorist-and its getting worse  (Read 13676 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ewan Hoosami

  • Administrator
  • Follower
  • *****
  • Posts: 2227
  • Veni, Vidi, $chunti. I came, I saw, I assisted.
Re: Big brother is watching the motorist-and its getting worse
« Reply #15 on: 11 August, 2012, 03:10:20 PM »
I saw one of these in the flesh a while back on a bike that came into my mate's repair shop. I think these are primarily aimed at speed camera evaders show and off road bike owners. While they would still be effective against council revenue safety cameras, the plate is only held in it's 'hidden' position against a motor driven servo so can still be manually flipped down by a CEO. I haven't looked into the legality of covering/altering/removing your number plate but I did hear a theory some time back that you could be leaving yourself open to perverting the course of justice.
Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

Offline The Bald Eagle

  • Administrator
  • Follower
  • *****
  • Posts: 4497
  • THE lowest common denominator
Re: Big brother is watching the motorist-and its getting worse
« Reply #16 on: 11 August, 2012, 03:44:22 PM »
Someone's already done it - see www.speedflip.com;)

I notice that they have a disclaimer stating that it's for "show or off road use only", so someone may want to check the legalities of it!


I think you will find that these are a big no no Ewan, and that the cops come down hard on those that have them fitted for the simple reason they can be activated whilst travelling (thus avoiding capture on speed cameras etc.) Hence my suggestion of a failsafe system that would not allow that to happen.

There is also the problem that the system you have referred to flips the whole number plate, which would mean a CEO would not be able to access it to give you a righteous (if there is such a thing) ticket. However, if it was a spring loaded flap that came down to cover your number plate as I suggested, I see no legal reason why it wouldn't be allowed.

Can you? <_>
WE ARE WATCHING YOU

Offline tommy the trumpet

  • Follower
  • **
  • Posts: 504
Re: Big brother is watching the motorist-and its getting worse
« Reply #17 on: 11 August, 2012, 10:29:52 PM »
Someones already done it, used it for stealth mode past speed cameras and was promptly caught I remember it being reported in the MCN a few years back. It was on a sports bike with control by a piece of string.

He was also nicked for speeding so all in all a very profitable idea for the police coffers.
« Last Edit: 11 August, 2012, 10:32:12 PM by tommy the trumpet »
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.    
Ciao Marco #58

Offline Pat Pending

  • Global Moderator
  • Follower
  • *****
  • Posts: 2504
Re: Big brother is watching the motorist-and its getting worse
« Reply #18 on: 11 August, 2012, 11:02:34 PM »
When speed cameras were all film and not digital it was possible for the Authorities to use all different settings using the original negative to enhance and read obscured plates with say cement dust applied to a wet reg plate or grime or even as I had seen a slave flash unit that fired directly back at the camera. I know as I used to repair these photographic printer machines. Digital however although very flexible has crimped their style a wee bit, as at what point does it become a manipulated /altered Image as opposed to just an enhanced image?
Start asking questions about digital watermarks methinks!
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Beer in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up,  totally worn out and screaming "WOO-HOO, what a  ride!!"

Offline The Bald Eagle

  • Administrator
  • Follower
  • *****
  • Posts: 4497
  • THE lowest common denominator
Re: Big brother is watching the motorist-and its getting worse
« Reply #19 on: 12 August, 2012, 01:54:04 AM »
When speed cameras were all film and not digital it was possible for the Authorities to use all different settings using the original negative to enhance and read obscured plates with say cement dust applied to a wet reg plate or grime or even as I had seen a slave flash unit that fired directly back at the camera. I know as I used to repair these photographic printer machines. Digital however although very flexible has crimped their style a wee bit, as at what point does it become a manipulated /altered Image as opposed to just an enhanced image?
Start asking questions about digital watermarks methinks!
WE ARE WATCHING YOU

Offline The Bald Eagle

  • Administrator
  • Follower
  • *****
  • Posts: 4497
  • THE lowest common denominator
Re: Big brother is watching the motorist-and its getting worse
« Reply #20 on: 12 August, 2012, 02:02:12 AM »
All I am asking is, is it illlegal to cover your number plate whilst you are stationary with your engine off? If it isn;t....? <_> <_>
WE ARE WATCHING YOU

Offline Ewan Hoosami

  • Administrator
  • Follower
  • *****
  • Posts: 2227
  • Veni, Vidi, $chunti. I came, I saw, I assisted.
Re: Big brother is watching the motorist-and its getting worse
« Reply #21 on: 12 August, 2012, 04:20:42 AM »
I've had a good look on the internet and I found this;



Then I looked for numberplate legislation and found nothing of any interest. There are requirements to display and guidelines for the format such as lettering and spacing but nothing about being stationary. Whether it's illegal or not is besides the point. You would get hassled if seen by a cozzer because the only reason you would want to cover or alter your plate would be to avoid a PCN. So we're back to perverting the course of justice again. The fact that weasels, councillors and everyone in between pervert the course of justice on a daily basis is besides the point also. Then again you can factor in the fact that cozzers probably have better things to do than to stand by your bike and await your return (if they notice it at all.) I don't suggest for one minute that any of you do this but I have heard of the following naughty little practice going on. A lot of plates have easily changeable letters like C and F. If someone were to have some pre cut strips of black tape in their top box, they could change the C to a G or the F to an E. On their return, they simply rip these strips off (after riding round the corner first and making sure they are out of sight.) If you take your time with the initial measuring and cutting, the plate (importantly) will look authentic. I understand that people who do this type of thing, don't have their tax discs displayed for obvious reasons. In the unlikely event that there is a cozzer there when these people return, I would imagine they would shake their heads, tut a couple of times and remove the tape while saying something like "Those pesky kids, I wish they'd leave my bike alone." You're not even reading this, are you? you're still looking at the saucy picture. I don't know why I bother sometimes.

Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

Offline DastardlyDick

  • Follower
  • **
  • Posts: 1697
Re: Big brother is watching the motorist-and its getting worse
« Reply #22 on: 12 August, 2012, 07:35:43 AM »
All I am asking is, is it illlegal to cover your number plate whilst you are stationary with your engine off? If it isn;t....? <_> <_>

I think that it could come down to what your intention was when you covered the plate, and what with

Judge - "So, Mr Eagle, why did you cover up the VRM of your motorcycle with a piece of cardboard?"
BE - "So that it couldn't be seen by the $camera cars used by the Council to enforce parking restrictions"
Judge - "So that they couldn't fine you?"
BE - "Yes, your Honour"
Judge - "Guilty of attempting to pervert the course of justice, take him down!"

or 

Judge - "So, Mr Eagle, why did you have a cover over your motorcycle?"
BE - "To protect it from the inclement weather m'lud"
Judge - "Fair enough, case dismissed!"

I know it wouldn't actually be a Judge asking the questions, but I'm sure you get the gist!

<back to the saucy picture>

« Last Edit: 12 August, 2012, 09:17:56 AM by DastardlyDick »

Offline The Bald Eagle

  • Administrator
  • Follower
  • *****
  • Posts: 4497
  • THE lowest common denominator
Re: Big brother is watching the motorist-and its getting worse
« Reply #23 on: 12 August, 2012, 10:04:22 AM »
I think that it could come down to what your intention was when you covered the plate, and what with

Judge - "So, Mr Eagle, why did you cover up the VRM of your motorcycle with a piece of cardboard?"
BE - "So that it couldn't be seen by the $camera cars used by the Council to enforce parking restrictions"
Judge - "So that they couldn't fine you?"
BE - "Yes, your Honour"
Judge - "Guilty of attempting to pervert the course of justice, take him down!"

<back to the saucy picture>

Perverting the course of justice is a criminal offence. They decriminalised parking back in the early nineties. As you quite rightly point out DD, it is not illegal to cover your number plate with a cover for your bike/car, so why would my idea for a flip up cover be less acceptable, or indeed against CIVIL law? <_>

And, by the way, it's not a fine, it's a penalty. No civilian/citizen can impose a fine on another in this country. That's part of the reason why BPA members can't enforce their parking tickets at present. ;)

Still waiting for someone to shoot me down. <_> In the meantime, back to the saucy picture... ;D
WE ARE WATCHING YOU

Offline Ewan Hoosami

  • Administrator
  • Follower
  • *****
  • Posts: 2227
  • Veni, Vidi, $chunti. I came, I saw, I assisted.
Re: Big brother is watching the motorist-and its getting worse
« Reply #24 on: 12 August, 2012, 11:11:59 AM »
I see what you're getting at BE. If parking is decriminalised then what interest would the law have? Strangely enough, furnishing a false statement to the adjudicator is a criminal offence. Let me rephrase that. A member of the public furnishing a false statement is a criminal offence. If you think I'm putting all these worms back in the can, then you're mistaken.

Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

Offline Kill Switch

  • Administrator
  • Follower
  • *****
  • Posts: 1380
Re: Big brother is watching the motorist-and its getting worse
« Reply #25 on: 12 August, 2012, 02:50:45 PM »
I've had a good look on the internet and I found this;




Just wanted to see the saucy pic again
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice


Offline Pat Pending

  • Global Moderator
  • Follower
  • *****
  • Posts: 2504
Re: Big brother is watching the motorist-and its getting worse
« Reply #26 on: 12 August, 2012, 02:54:48 PM »
I've had a good look on the internet and I found this;




Just wanted to see the saucy pic again



She will catch a death of a cold if she don't put a vest on!
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Beer in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up,  totally worn out and screaming "WOO-HOO, what a  ride!!"

Offline DastardlyDick

  • Follower
  • **
  • Posts: 1697
Re: Big brother is watching the motorist-and its getting worse
« Reply #27 on: 13 August, 2012, 12:47:05 AM »
I think that it could come down to what your intention was when you covered the plate, and what with

Judge - "So, Mr Eagle, why did you cover up the VRM of your motorcycle with a piece of cardboard?"
BE - "So that it couldn't be seen by the $camera cars used by the Council to enforce parking restrictions"
Judge - "So that they couldn't fine you?"
BE - "Yes, your Honour"
Judge - "Guilty of attempting to pervert the course of justice, take him down!"

<back to the saucy picture>

Perverting the course of justice is a criminal offence. They decriminalised parking back in the early nineties. As you quite rightly point out DD, it is not illegal to cover your number plate with a cover for your bike/car, so why would my idea for a flip up cover be less acceptable, or indeed against CIVIL law? <_>

And, by the way, it's not a fine, it's a penalty. No civilian/citizen can impose a fine on another in this country. That's part of the reason why BPA members can't enforce their parking tickets at present. ;)

Still waiting for someone to shoot me down. <_> In the meantime, back to the saucy picture... ;D

Good point, well made - on reflection, I could have  chosen better words. I blame the sodding Olympics!

The only other piece of legislation I can think of that might stand in the way would be Construction & Use?

Offline DastardlyDick

  • Follower
  • **
  • Posts: 1697
Re: Big brother is watching the motorist-and its getting worse
« Reply #28 on: 14 August, 2012, 03:36:13 PM »
OK, I think I've got it.

According to www.motordefencesolicitors.co.uk:-

"It is an offence to drive or own a vehicle that:
has the registration mark obscured, e.g. so dirty that you cannot read it.
 there is no requirement for an NIP for number plate offences. "


Defences

"Any Defence will usually be related to whether it was reasonable to have your number plate obscured, unlit or not affixed to the vehicle"

All this is in the 'Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001'

It's a £60 Fine for each offence, so if you're in a car that'll be £120 if both VRMs are obscured, but no points.

Hope that helps.
« Last Edit: 14 August, 2012, 03:44:34 PM by DastardlyDick »

Offline dangerous beanz

  • Follower
  • **
  • Posts: 161
Re: Big brother is watching the motorist-and its getting worse
« Reply #29 on: 19 August, 2012, 01:54:34 AM »
Can you not just cover the whole bike with a  purpose made  fabric cover, to keep the rain off, and add security of course?
If there is a tourist season...how come we can't shoot them?

 


Supporters of the NoToMob

In order to view this object you need Flash Player 9+ support!

Get Adobe Flash player