Author Topic: Letter/email sent 13/01/2013 to all Medway councillors re Chatham bus lane  (Read 34993 times)

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Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Letter/email sent 13/01/2013 to all Medway councillors re Chatham bus lane
« Reply #15 on: 03 February, 2013, 02:20:24 PM »
Three weeks on and I have just had to send this (below). Obviously the council's definition of "shortly" differs from that of everyone else. :bashy: :bashy: :bashy: :bashy: :bashy: :bashy: :bashy: :bashy:

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Dear Cllr Chambers

Further to your acknowledgment of 14th January 2013 (below), I am disappointed to note that in the following three weeks I do not appear to have received any further acknowledgment from the "appropriate department", nor is there any sign of the "full response" I was promised "shortly".

Kindly enquire with the appropriate department as to when I can expect to receive the promised reply.

Yours sincerely

VVVVVVVVVVV (No To Mob co-ordinator)

----------------------------------------------------------------

mason, rita

To xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Dear xxxxxxxxxxx
 
I write to acknowledge receipt of your email to Cllr Chambers and your comments and concerns have been noted. Your correspondence has been forwarded to the appropriate department and a full response should be sent shortly.
 
Regards
Rita Mason
Assistant to Cllr Rodney Chambers
Leader
Medway Council
Gun Wharf
Dock Road
Chatham
Kent  ME4 4TR
01634 332514
rita.mason@medway.gov.uk
www.medway.gov.uk
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Offline Tom Tom Str

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Re: Letter/email sent 13/01/2013 to all Medway councillors re Chatham bus lane
« Reply #16 on: 05 February, 2013, 02:43:01 PM »
They are just expecting it to all die down and disappear  ie just ignore it --it's nothing really !  :-X      <_>

Offline melville-vs-medway

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Re: Letter/email sent 13/01/2013 to all Medway councillors re Chatham bus lane
« Reply #17 on: 05 February, 2013, 03:16:52 PM »
Hi  BE

Well I know Councillor Paul Godwin was recently taken very ill after suffering a heart attack and it seems he's in good spirits and recovering. So after stepping down as leader of Medway Labour Vince Maple is now leader of the Medway Labour group so I guess you start there seeing as the leader is Chatham Central's Councillor. http://democracy.medway.gov.uk/mgFindMember.aspx?XXR=0&AC=WARD&WID=12855


Funny thing while looking up Chatham central i discovered that cllrs have a record of attendance.. >>
http://democracy.medway.gov.uk/mgAttendance.aspx?UID=131&DR=26%2F05%2F2012%20-%2018%2F11%2F2012

Never knew that...  <_> So I looked up the F****R who let me down so bad the smillling twat Rehman Chishti and no surprises there he hasn't got any attendance record... http://democracy.medway.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=122

Only one piece of information I could dig up on the lick  :P arse was a declaration of interest going back in 2010.

Just when my anger subsides I find more reason to hate these lying, cheating no good F****RS.
Check out my signs.. I have made a few copies and they're laminated..

http://paulsweb.hostei.com/notomob/signs/a4-printed-sign.jpg

Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Letter/email sent 13/01/2013 to all Medway councillors re Chatham bus lane
« Reply #18 on: 05 February, 2013, 05:09:21 PM »
Just got this. I look forward to seeing your comments.

---------------------------------------------
Dear Mr xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you for your email on the subject of enforcement of traffic regulations in Chatham. Perhaps I misunderstand what you are actually trying to achieve but if it is to allow all traffic through a bus station used by pensioners, school children, shoppers, the disabled and other Medway residents then it does not have the support of myself or others in the Council. I believe bus stations need to be absolutely safe for people using them.

In relation to your claim that we are acting unlawfully that is not a view held by the Adjudicator who has ruled in favour of Medway Council in 18 cases and against in 15. If we were acting as you suggest I have no doubt we would have lost all 33 cases.   The most recent appeal that we won was in January of this year.   You suggest in the KM that this is "smoke and mirrors".  I fail to see how it can be so when we have won more cases than we have lost when independently examined.

We can of course always do better and the comments from the Adjudicator suggest that we could improve advisory signage still further in addition to the lawful signs we have already, of course, erected.  This is work we will be carrying out shortly to make it even clearer that cars, motorbikes, vans and lorries are not invited in nor going to be tolerated driving through a bus station.  To build on that, we are actively looking at the road layout to see if we can make the situation even clearer.  Our aim is to provide a bus station that is safe for its legitimate users not to issue tickets to motorists.

I note that you have referred the matter to the district auditor which you are quite entitled to do.

Yours sincerely

Rodney Chambers

Leader - Medway Council
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Offline Ewan Hoosami

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Re: Letter/email sent 13/01/2013 to all Medway councillors re Chatham bus lane
« Reply #19 on: 05 February, 2013, 09:37:45 PM »
"Perhaps I misunderstand what you are actually trying to achieve." That much is evident. Where do councils get these condescending little pricks from? I see he's added pensioners and the disabled to the long list of people being mown down by reckless drivers on a daily basis. "Our aim is to provide a bus station that is safe for it's legitimate users...." How safe does he think the two 'pedestrian crossings' are (I do use the term very loosely.) Nice that they are looking at a flawless and completely lawful road layout to see if they can make it even clearer. Rodney. Says it all.

Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Letter/email sent 13/01/2013 to all Medway councillors re Chatham bus lane
« Reply #20 on: 06 February, 2013, 10:29:10 AM »
Latest Medway Messenger article attached.

Gloves are off.

Seconds out!

Round two.

Ding!!!
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Offline Boyo

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Re: Letter/email sent 13/01/2013 to all Medway councillors re Chatham bus lane
« Reply #21 on: 06 February, 2013, 01:12:02 PM »
By his own argument, surely if the signs were as obvious and the design as clear cut as the councillor claims, then they would have won all 33 of their cases with the adjudicator. As it stands, it's 18 - 15 for and against, which is pretty much 50-50 in percentage terms. How much more evidence do they need that it's very confusing there??  :bashy:
"To no man will we sell, or deny, or delay right or justice" - from the Magna Carta

Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Letter/email sent 13/01/2013 to all Medway councillors re Chatham bus lane
« Reply #22 on: 06 February, 2013, 02:07:11 PM »
By his own argument, surely if the signs were as obvious and the design as clear cut as the councillor claims, then they would have won all 33 of their cases with the adjudicator. As it stands, it's 18 - 15 for and against, which is pretty much 50-50 in percentage terms. How much more evidence do they need that it's very confusing there??  :bashy:

More importantly Boyo, I know of at least two people who have been let off tickets at the council appeal stage because they have raised the question of dodgy signs. If I know of two, how many more have they let off rather than let them go to the TPT to present their evidence? And why let them off if they are so certain they will win?

That's why I said in the newspaper article that it's all "smoke and mirrors" and a "numbers game". We only get to see what the council want to show us, and they manipulate the system to work in their favour.

We are formulating a reply which may bring forward one or two embarrassing revelations for our Rodney and his mates.

Watch this space... ;)
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Offline Boyo

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Re: Letter/email sent 13/01/2013 to all Medway councillors re Chatham bus lane
« Reply #23 on: 06 February, 2013, 03:20:25 PM »
Goody goody :-ev-:
"To no man will we sell, or deny, or delay right or justice" - from the Magna Carta

Offline Ewan Hoosami

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Re: Letter/email sent 13/01/2013 to all Medway councillors re Chatham bus lane
« Reply #24 on: 07 February, 2013, 08:50:13 AM »
If you're reading this, Rodney, now's a good time to duck.

Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Letter/email sent 13/01/2013 to all Medway councillors re Chatham bus lane
« Reply #25 on: 11 February, 2013, 02:27:23 PM »
Many thanks to all on here for their input on this subject, which I have moulded into what I hope is a pretty strong reminder to Medway council that they are failing in their duties to ensure the safety of those they purport to serve.

Or to put it another way:

'AVE IT!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

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This was also c.c.'d to every councillor, BBC Radio Kent, BBC southeast news and the Kent Messenger.

Dear Councillor Chambers
 
Thank you for giving this matter your personal attention (I attach a copy of your reply below for ease of reference). You have indeed misunderstood what we are trying to achieve at Chatham bus station and with Medway council. Thank you though, for reminding us that the safety of "pensioners, school children, shoppers, the disabled and other Medway residents" is paramount as far as you and your fellow Medway councillors are concerned.
 
You may rest assured that we also "believe bus stations need to be absolutely safe for people using them", and we are equally passionate about ensuring the safety of "pensioners, school children, shoppers, the disabled and other Medway residents." In fact, we go one stage further than you and your council, because our remit on safety extends to every person who uses the bus station, not just the Medway residents who form your electorate.
 
I do not know if you saw the BBC documentary "Parking Mad", but if you didn't I attach a youtube link for ease of reference.
I believe that the documentary makes it perfectly clear what it is the NoToMob are trying to achieve, which is to stop thousands of motorists from using the bus lane. Once again it would appear the aims of the NoToMob match those of the council in that neither of us want to see motorists putting the safety of "pensioners, school children, shoppers, the disabled and other Medway residents" at risk. Where we differ however, is that we do not agree that motorists are wilfully ignoring the signs/lines/traffic systems you have put in place.
 
We are more than a little puzzled by your statement that "cars, motorbikes, vans and lorries are not invited in nor going to be tolerated driving through a bus station." Cars are regular users of the bus lane and hundreds, if not thousands of them pass through it every day (without penalty) which, according to you and your council compromises "the safety of pensioners, school children, shoppers, the disabled and other Medway residents". These cars are called taxis, and your council has granted them permission to use the bus lanes at will. Perhaps you would be kind enough to clarify why you think taxis are any less dangerous than other cars?
 
Thank you for admitting that "We can of course always do better..." and, "that we could improve advisory signage still further in addition to the lawful signs we have already, of course, erected." We take that as your admission that the current signs are inadequate and that you have failed in your duty of care to the public you purport to serve, despite your stated concerns for their safety.
 
We do however have some very serious concerns as to whether you and your council are as committed to achieving the standards of safety that you say you are. Our concerns are as follows:
 
1. Someone at your council made and approved plans for the bus station that did not originally include plans for any pedestrian crossings whatsoever.
 
2. When this was pointed out by an angry public (whose safety had been compromised from the day the bus station opened when people had to cross roads that were teeming with buses and taxis), the council hastily installed road markings that are "illegal and unsafe" according to an expert. http://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway_messenger/news/2011/october/21/zebra_crossing.aspx. These road markings have the appearance of zebra crossings but do not have the zig-zag lines as prescribed by law. Despite being warned of these inadequacies the “illegal and unsafe” road markings are still there to this day.
 
3. Someone at your council made and approved plans for the bus station that include a sign that is installed at the mouth of Globe Lane indicating a "with flow cycle lane", and then didn't bother to construct the cycle lane itself, thus making the sign redundant at the point of installation and a complete waste of taxpayer money. And because there is no cycle lane, the safety of cyclists is being compromised on a daily basis.
 
4. Similarly, someone at the council made and approved plans whereby cyclists are not allowed to ride in the road through Globe Lane, and then authorised and erected signs that direct cyclists to ride on the pavement, which takes them right through the hordes "of pensioners, school children, shoppers, the disabled and other Medway residents" (approximately 60,000 per week according to Medway council press releases) who are walking to bus stops, or merely passing through the bus station.
 
5. We also have some serious concerns about the council's thinking when it erected signs at all the entrances to the bus station, urging motorists to ignore their satnavs. One has to question the wisdom of this decision on the grounds that some satnavs may have been re-calibrated to correctly take the motorist away from the bus station, whilst others may not be directing the driver through the bus station in the first instance. What is one of these motorists supposed to do when seeing such signs? Should he/she do as the council directs and ignore his/her satnav and drive through the bus station, thereby endangering the safety of "pensioners, school children, shoppers, the disabled and other Medway residents"? Or should they ignore the "ignore your satnav" signs you installed in the same way you suggest they are ignoring the ones installed in the bus lanes? Again we seek your clarification.
 
6. The most disturbing aspect of all however, is that Medway council representatives have repeatedly presented evidence to a legal tribunal (the Traffic Penalty Tribunal (TPT)) that actively encourages motorists to commit a criminal act, thereby risking the safety of "pensioners, school children, shoppers, the disabled and other Medway residents". I will explain.
 
I attach a copy of the TPT decision of Patricia New. I would urge you to read this decision in its entirety and take note of the adjudicator's remark concerning "...the failure of this road system." More particularly however, I refer you to Paragraph 2 on page 2 where it states the council's position that "A vehicle approaching this junction [Medway Street and Globe Lane/Waterfront Way] is permitted to continue straight ahead to enter Military Road..."
 
Medway council has designated Military Road as a pedestrian area and has erected Motor Vehicles Prohibited signs (commonly known as "the flying motorbike" sign) at either side of the entrance to Military Way. As you are probably aware, these signs are enforceable by a police officer and carry a penalty of a fine, with the distinct possibility of points being added to the driver's license.
 
Consequently, not only is the council encouraging motorists to commit a criminal offence as a matter of council policy (incidentally, there are several TPT decisions which demonstrate that similar evidence is presented by the council on a regular basis and as a matter of council policy), but it is also encouraging motorists to enter into a Medway council designated pedestrian zone, thereby risking the safety of "pensioners, school children, shoppers, the disabled and other Medway residents".
 
What are the NoToMob trying to achieve?
 
The answer to your question is simple.
 
We want Medway council to recognise that it has failed in its duty of care to those it purports to serve. We want you to understand and recognise that none of this was the fault of anything the No To Mob have done, nor indeed is it the fault of anyone other than Medway council.
 
We want Medway council to ask itself the question as to why 20,000+ motorists (and rising) have been issued penalties for driving through a bus lane designed and built by Medway council at huge expense to the taxpayer. Do you really believe that motorists are using this as a £60 toll road, or is it more likely that people from outside the Medway area who have come to visit and spend money in Medway, are not seeing the signs (or possibly obeying the don't follow your satnav signs) and are being duped into paying a not insubstantial fine/toll?
 
We want Medway council to understand the damage they are doing to the local economy by issuing £60 penalty charges as a greeting to tourists, some of whom will vow never to visit Medway again when they see a Penalty Charge Notice drop on their doormat a week after they visited.
 
We want Medway council to recognise that the systems/lines/signs designed and put in place by you in an attempt to prevent motorists entering the bus lane have abjectly failed to achieve the council's stated aim of not issuing any tickets whatsoever. This is borne out by the statistic that to date, 20,000+ motorists have entered the bus lanes and received fines, with that number contiuing to rise at an alarming rate.
 
We want Medway council to cease an enforcement process that is clearly failing and to install systems, signs and lines that fulfil the council's statutory duty of care towards those it purports to serve.
 
And finally, when admissions of failure have been made, when the signs are put right and enforcement has recommenced, we want Medway councillors to look to their morals and consider whether it would be right to repay all of the penalty charges it has imposed on motorists who, in the main are innocent.
 
I trust this clears up any ambiguity as to what it is the NoToMob want to achieve, but if you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us. The NoToMob's offer of help in line with the Prime Minister's (your party leader's) call for a “Big Society” still stands, and we await your call.
 
Yours sincerely
 
xxxxxxxxxxxx (NoToMob co-ordinator)
 
--------------------------------------------------------
 
Subject: RE: Chatham bus lane/station
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 15:40:29 +0000
From: rita.mason@medway.gov.uk
To: xxxxxxxxxxx
 
Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
Thank you for your email on the subject of enforcement of traffic regulations in Chatham. Perhaps I misunderstand what you are actually trying to achieve but if it is to allow all traffic through a bus station used by pensioners, school children, shoppers, the disabled and other Medway residents then it does not have the support of myself or others in the Council. I believe bus stations need to be absolutely safe for people using them.
 
In relation to your claim that we are acting unlawfully that is not a view held by the Adjudicator who has ruled in favour of Medway Council in 18 cases and against in 15. If we were acting as you suggest I have no doubt we would have lost all 33 cases. The most recent appeal that we won was in January of this year. You suggest in the KM that this is "smoke and mirrors". I fail to see how it can be so when we have won more cases than we have lost when independently examined.
 
We can of course always do better and the comments from the Adjudicator suggest that we could improve advisory signage still further in addition to the lawful signs we have already, of course, erected. This is work we will be carrying out shortly to make it even clearer that cars, motorbikes, vans and lorries are not invited in nor going to be tolerated driving through a bus station. To build on that, we are actively looking at the road layout to see if we can make the situation even clearer. Our aim is to provide a bus station that is safe for its legitimate users not to issue tickets to motorists.

I note that you have referred the matter to the district auditor which you are quite entitled to do.
 
Yours sincerely
 
Rodney Chambers
 
Leader - Medway Council
« Last Edit: 11 February, 2013, 02:50:24 PM by The Bald Eagle »
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Offline peperami gsxr

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Re: Letter/email sent 13/01/2013 to all Medway councillors re Chatham bus lane
« Reply #26 on: 11 February, 2013, 03:04:58 PM »
 :aplude: :aplude: :aplude:
Sworn to fun, loyalty to none

Offline judasp

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Re: Letter/email sent 13/01/2013 to all Medway councillors re Chatham bus lane
« Reply #27 on: 11 February, 2013, 03:25:15 PM »
Nice one mate  :aplude: :aplude:
we will be watching you, my car will catch you

Offline Tom Tom Str

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Re: Letter/email sent 13/01/2013 to all Medway councillors re Chatham bus lane
« Reply #28 on: 11 February, 2013, 05:28:17 PM »
An Excellent Letter Mate...Well done !    :aplude: :aplude: :aplude:

Offline Pat Pending

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Re: Letter/email sent 13/01/2013 to all Medway councillors re Chatham bus lane
« Reply #29 on: 11 February, 2013, 06:40:50 PM »
Nicely put BE,  :aplude: :aplude:  :aplude: lets see what ridiculous crap they come out with now.  ???
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Beer in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up,  totally worn out and screaming "WOO-HOO, what a  ride!!"

 


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