Author Topic: Harrow Christchurch Avenue/Byron road  (Read 26074 times)

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Offline mop62904

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Re: Harrow Christchurch Avenue/Byron road
« Reply #15 on: 04 March, 2015, 11:56:16 AM »
Hello everyone,

Today received by mail a PCN notice for Christchurch Avenue/byronON (date) 20/02/15. At time 19.04.

Alleged contravention is - 33H - Using a route restricted to certain vehicles local buses and cycles only. It was my first time at Harrow leisure center, and think I am not going back again...Any way it was my first time and I was bit lost and confused...

I have already check the code 33H and think is correct, but to tell the truth dont remember if there was any sign with that information!

Anyone appealed with success?

Thanks and please any help is welcome!

Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Harrow Christchurch Avenue/Byron road
« Reply #16 on: 04 March, 2015, 01:21:20 PM »
Googlemaps latest view is from May 2014 and you can see advance signs in Christchurch Avenue showing no entry for motor vehicles save for access, and then blue signs indicating no access save for buses and cycles on the roundabout.

Unless you can show that one or more of those signs are missing or covered by foliage or something similar then I'm afraid you may be bang to rights old chum.

From a personal point of view I cannot for the life of me understand why this restriction is in place, particularly since Christchurch Avenue has no main feeder roads that would lead to traffic congestion. So the question is why are there any restrictions there in the first place? Check out the aerial view on Googlemaps (or perhaps Ewan can do his screen capture trick please?) and you will see what I mean.
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Offline Pat Pending

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Re: Harrow Christchurch Avenue/Byron road
« Reply #17 on: 04 March, 2015, 02:56:03 PM »
Appeal it anyway as this gives them the chance to naff it up with a Procedural Inproprietary.  <_>
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Beer in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up,  totally worn out and screaming "WOO-HOO, what a  ride!!"

Offline Ewan Hoosami

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Re: Harrow Christchurch Avenue/Byron road
« Reply #18 on: 04 March, 2015, 07:25:23 PM »
It might be worth a return visit if you are reasonably local or around that way. A historical street view grab from 2008 show that Harrow are not as keen at tree pruning as they are at organising petty restrictions. As BE pointed out, if the signs are not clearly visible then take photos to show this.

My other point centres around where the $camera is. This captures vehicles exiting from the supposed restriction but it does not show the vehicle contravening the restriction. i.e. the vehicle is not shown filmed from the rear passing the signs. The alleged offence would have been established by driving past the flying motorbike signs so this is what the Council need to prove.

Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

Offline Ewan Hoosami

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Re: Harrow Christchurch Avenue/Byron road
« Reply #19 on: 04 March, 2015, 08:54:40 PM »
I have found a PATAS case (3 identical actually) that mirror your exact circumstances.

Case Reference:   2150012184
Appellant:   Mr Naeem Lone
Authority:   Harrow
VRM:   NL52VDX
PCN:   HR85802354
Contravention Date:   29 Oct 2014
Contravention Time:   22:29
Contravention Location:   Christchurch Avenue
Penalty Amount:   £130.00
Contravention:   Using a route restricted to certain vehicles
Decision Date:   23 Feb 2015
Adjudicator:   Teresa Brennan
Appeal Decision:   Allowed
Direction:   cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons:   Mr Lone attended today. He appeals against three Penalty Charge Notices all issued for the same contravention. It is alleged that on 27th October, 29th October and 2nd November 2014 the appellant's car used a route in Christchurch Avenue restricted to certain vehicles.

Mr Lone does not dispute that his car  was seen in the bus and cycle route. He raises issues about the signing of the restriction.

On each occasion Mr Lone had been to the Harrow Leisure Centre. He drove right out of the Leisure Centre. I find that he would not have driven past the warning sign shown in the local authority's photographs HR3 and 4 the sign is clearly situated before the turning to the Leisure Centre as it advises motorists that the centre is on the right and that access for cars and bikes is prohibited 250 yards ahead. IN its case summary the local authority states that  motorists have ample opportunity to understand the junction ahead because of the warning signs. The warnings are given to prevent motorists having to perform a U turn at the roundabout. The local authority provides photographs HR5 and 6 which show the signs at the roundabout. The sign indicating that there is no entry except for buses is at the roundabout.

The local authority states that it wishes to avoid motorists carrying out U turns at this location. I am not satisfied on the evidence that I have seen that there are sufficient warning signs of the prohibition ahead for motorists approaching the roundabout who have turned right out of the leisure centre.

I allow the appeal against each of the Penalty Charge Notices.   

---------------------------

Identical to 2150011239 & 2150011192 enter any of the numbers in at the PATAS search page,

http://www.patasregistersofappeals.org.uk/StatReg/StatRegAdvanced.aspx

Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

Offline Ewan Hoosami

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Re: Harrow Christchurch Avenue/Byron road
« Reply #20 on: 20 March, 2015, 11:54:44 AM »
From a personal point of view I cannot for the life of me understand why this restriction is in place……………..

I have just got back from university having studied Council enforcement principles and can now enlighten you. You'll see from the example PATAS case that "The local authority states that it wishes to avoid motorists carrying out U turns at this location". So the Council don't want naughty motorists heading south-west on Christchurch Avenue, performing a U-turn at the orange roundabout and heading back along Christchurch Avenue to end up at the green roundabout, which is where they would end up if they had simply taken the first exit from the orange roundabout onto Masons Avenue or if they were in a hurry, simply turned left out of the Leisure Centre in the first place. Any naughty drivers filmed emerging from the red square may not actually perform a U-turn but a PCN should be issued anyway just in case they were thinking of it.
Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Harrow Christchurch Avenue/Byron road
« Reply #21 on: 20 March, 2015, 12:17:58 PM »

"The local authority states that it wishes to avoid motorists carrying out U turns at this location".

What feckin' location!? <_> <_>

The reasons for this are becoming increasingly bizarre.

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