Author Topic: Sutton maiden $chunt - 20th July 2013. Wanna fight?  (Read 9167 times)

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Offline The Bald Eagle

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Sutton maiden $chunt - 20th July 2013. Wanna fight?
« on: 21 July, 2013, 02:52:11 PM »
Roll call first, and then on to the controversial stuff. Present were (in no particular order) Tom Tom, Coco, Printscreen, Javabike, BGB, our local rep Overlord, and me.

We finally met up quite late, mainly because of the hugely confusing and massive one way system that surrounds the main shopping area in Sutton.

Whilst posing for photos for the local paper, we were joined by a couple of Her Majesty's constabulary who had done a full lap of the one way system after spotting us on their first drive-by. The driver of the vehicle told us he knew all about us, but wanted to confirm what we were up to today. He was handed a copy of the Statement of Intent and informed that this was indeed our first visit to his manor where we were to assist the $camera cars ($car). He confirmed that he understood exactly what we were about to do and that he did not have a problem with it. And off they went. No controversy there then. That comes later.

We then set off to $chunt ($camera hunt), armed with a copy of their top ten hotspots. As we suspected however, the $cars in this borough only do parking enforcement, so they are constantly on the move. Consequently we had no joy finding them at first. We really should remind Sutton council of the Secretary of State's statutory guidance which states at Paragraph 48:

"The Secretary of State recommends that approved devices are used only where enforcement is difficult or sensitive and CEO enforcement is not practical."

Anyway, a quick dip back to the pen at lunchtime proved successful and we located one of the two $cars that Sutton council operate via their contractors NSL. It took some time before the operators came back from their lunch, and it seemed they were oblivious to our presence and what was about to happen. I handed one of the operators our Statement of Intent and it was only at this point that he questioned what we were doing. I carefully explained that several of us would be assisting him with his duties of ensuring “100% compliance without penalties” and it was at this point that I swear I witnessed a light bulb come on over his head which looked a lot like this, :idea: but without the smile. He was not a happy bunny and he immediately went back inside the NSL offices, no doubt to consult with the next person up the chain of command.

Shortly afterwards he came out again, followed by someone who appeared to be his boss. This guy (let's call him Boss #1) started asking us questions, armed with the the Statement of Intent that he had obviously been given by the $car CEO.

It was while I was discussing things with Boss #1 that the $car and its occupants made its break for freedom, without success. Coco, Overlord (Coco's pillion), Printscreen, Tom Tom and BGB were ready, willing and able to provide valuable assistance.

In the meantime  Boss #1 wanted to know if me and Java (we had remained behind because we suspected that the other $car was due to return soon) were going to be there long enough for his boss (let's call him Boss #2) to come down and have a word. We couldn't confirm this for definite because we were preparing to follow the other $car if it was located, but we did confirm that we would be more than happy to speak to anyone if we were still there.

Before I go too much further I should explain that although  Boss #1 was a little hostile towards us at first, mainly because he thought we had something to do with Sutton council and that they (NSL) should have been consulted about our attendance, but once he understood the situation he was perfectly reasonable, polite and respectful.

However, that could not be said of  Boss #2. Although I had heard Boss #1 reading out the Statement of Intent over the phone to Boss #2, it appears that Boss #2 had not understood its contents, because on arrival he didn't even go into the office to assess the situation before approaching me and Java in a most aggressive manner, demanding to know if we were the ones following his drivers.

I suggested that he may want to modify his approach to one less aggressive if he wanted to question a member of the public, but he declined my invitation and threatened to call the police. Oh dear!

I suggested that before he did that he should think very carefully and read our Statement of Intent (I handed him one), a copy of which had been given to HM constabulary only that very morning. This only enraged Boss #2 even more and he went off ranting that he had had dealings with “idiots” like us before and that he was not going to have his CEOs “harassed” in any way. Boss #2's problem was that he had underestimated us “idiots” and hadn't worked out that we cannot be accused of harassing an inanimate object like a $car.

Shortly afterwards one of the $car operators (they had returned in $car #2 by the way), who had appeared a perfectly reasonable person prior to this, was ordered to come down and make a note of my number plate, obviously in an attempt to intimidate us. I've got news for anyone reading this, (including Boss #2 if he can be bothered). We don't give in to bullies.

The next thing we knew, Boss #2 (or as he is better known to us Paul, CEO badge number SU220. Never underestimate an "idiot" Paul) appeared at a second floor office window, SoI in hand and talking on the phone to the Police. He was glaring daggers at us in between reading out the SoI on the phone. After a heated debate, Paul disappeared off and we awaited arrival of the cops. After a considerable wait we were pleasantly surprised when $car #1 returned to base with Coco, Overlord and Printscreen in tow. Tom Tom and BGB had gone home having put in a full shift :aplude: :aplude: :aplude:.

The yard where the $cars were parked was full of $chunters and CEOs (some foot, some $car operators) when Paul reappeared at the window. I took the opportunity to ask whether we should expect the police any time soon, but this was met with a resentful stare, delivered with menaces. I ventured that I was most disappointed that they would not be attending, and reminded Paul that I had warned him they were perfectly aware that we were doing nothing wrong. And that's when he snapped.

He began a rant in which he maintained that he didn't “give a fuck” what we or the police thought, and that he would not stand for anyone putting his car operators in danger by making them more visible to members of the public. Obviously poor Paul has no idea that the $cars are actually supposed to a visible deterrent, and that his rant had confirmed that his employers would prefer they were not. I wonder if Sutton council are aware that NSL have adopted such a policy in their name?

He concluded this rant by looking directly at me and suggesting that we meet after work one night so he could sort me out. I couldn't believe he said it in front of so many witnesses, but I can assure you he did. I was so shocked I was at a loss for words (for a change), but Java asked “Is that a threat?” to which Paul replied “I don't make threats. I make promises!”. It was at this point he closed the window on the conversation, both metaphorically and physically.

So there you have it. Not only were some of us the victims of a physical assault by an NSL employee and his associates in Waltham Forest, others, including myself have now been victims of a verbal assault by another NSL employee which, if witnessed by a police officer may well have resulted in action being taken against the NSL perpetrator.



« Last Edit: 23 July, 2013, 11:53:04 AM by The Bald Eagle »
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Offline Ewan Hoosami

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Re: Sutton maiden $chunt - 20th July 2013. Wanna fight?
« Reply #1 on: 21 July, 2013, 04:56:26 PM »
My word! I didn't find the bit in the guidance that deals with CEOs giving a member of the public a good kicking but I did find a couple of little snippets.

36. CEOs are the public face of CPE and the way they perform their functions is crucial to the success, and public perception, of an authority’s CPE operation.

50. The primary objective of any camera enforcement system is to ensure the safe and efficient operation of the road network by deterring motorists from breaking road traffic restrictions and detecting those that do. To do this, the system needs to be well publicised and indicated with lawful traffic signs.

I could be wrong here but what happened may not strictly speaking be considered as 'having regard.'

Uniquely, all our Civil Enforcement Officers are trained in customer service, employing tact and empathy in their dealings.

Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

Offline dangerous beanz

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Re: Sutton maiden $chunt - 20th July 2013. Wanna fight?
« Reply #2 on: 21 July, 2013, 05:33:56 PM »
No video?
If there is a tourist season...how come we can't shoot them?

Offline DastardlyDick

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Re: Sutton maiden $chunt - 20th July 2013. Wanna fight?
« Reply #3 on: 21 July, 2013, 06:14:30 PM »
Was this at the yard they use off Grove Road? If so, it wouldn't  have taken the BiB long to get there as the nick is just down the road.

Offline Pat Pending

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Re: Sutton maiden $chunt - 20th July 2013. Wanna fight?
« Reply #4 on: 21 July, 2013, 06:34:29 PM »
This so called Boss by the name of Paul sounds like a complete and utter WANKER! in every respect.  But then this is NSL, and I think that it is a requirement for a managerial position.
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Beer in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up,  totally worn out and screaming "WOO-HOO, what a  ride!!"

Offline DastardlyDick

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Re: Sutton maiden $chunt - 20th July 2013. Wanna fight?
« Reply #5 on: 21 July, 2013, 06:46:40 PM »
Has anyone reported this to Mr Hanslip yet?

Offline The Bald Eagle

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Offline Coco

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Re: Sutton maiden $chunt - 20th July 2013. Wanna fight?
« Reply #7 on: 25 July, 2013, 01:17:24 PM »
Oh dear! Yet again we get branded as "vigilantes".

Offline Ewan Hoosami

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Re: Sutton maiden $chunt - 20th July 2013. Wanna fight?
« Reply #8 on: 25 July, 2013, 02:19:01 PM »
Vigilante behaviour usually involves violence or threats of violence. Did anyone notice anything like that in Sutton?

Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

Offline Coco

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Re: Sutton maiden $chunt - 20th July 2013. Wanna fight?
« Reply #9 on: 25 July, 2013, 02:27:22 PM »
Only from Paul!

Offline Ewan Hoosami

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Re: Sutton maiden $chunt - 20th July 2013. Wanna fight?
« Reply #10 on: 25 July, 2013, 02:35:09 PM »
Maybe he's misunderstood. He might have been so overjoyed that BE was doing his job for him he might have wanted to thank him personally. Offering to 'sort someone out' can have a few possible meanings.

Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

Offline Overlord

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Re: Sutton maiden $chunt - 20th July 2013. Wanna fight?
« Reply #11 on: 25 July, 2013, 07:58:20 PM »
Great day on Saturday. Thanks Coco for chauffeuring me around and thanks everyone for turning out :aplude: :aplude: :aplude: :aplude: :aplude: :aplude:. Here's the press report. I bet Paul has egg on his face. How embarrassing for him. :-ev-:

Offline DastardlyDick

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Re: Sutton maiden $chunt - 20th July 2013. Wanna fight?
« Reply #12 on: 25 July, 2013, 11:40:36 PM »
I bet Paul has egg on his face.

Not unless one of his own employee's threw it (allegedly)  ;D

Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Sutton maiden $chunt - 20th July 2013. Wanna fight?
« Reply #13 on: 10 August, 2013, 11:44:48 AM »
This just in. A couple of questions though.

After what happened in the Waltham Forest "egg gate" incident, why was the advice that has allegedly been issued to "all its staff" not given at that time? If it had, the Sutton incident would never have occurred.

And come to that, what about all the previous run ins that we've had with NSL? They have been perfectly aware of what our "intentions are" from day one when the police were called on us outside the Wastemonster pen.

It will be interesting to see whether this advice has been disseminated to the operators next time we $chunt an NSL $car. If it has, it will mean that we have been included as a part of NSL's training scheme and therefore recognised as being a valuable part in achieving the operator's ultimate goal of 100% compliance without penalties.

Then again, maybe Mr Kershaw has been lied to...

-------------------------------------------

Dear Mr xxxxxxxxxxx

Further to your complaint on this issue I can confirm it has been robustly investigated by our contractor NSL.

Immediately following receipt of your allegations  relating to incidents outside the NSL base on the Saturday 20th July, NSL suspended the individual concerned and carried out a full investigation of the incident. That investigation is now concluded with appropriate disciplinary measures having been taken. I am assured that NSL takes all matters of this nature involving their staff extremely seriously. Following the incident, NSL has issued advice to all of its staff about who NoToMob are and what your intentions are. It is deeply regrettable that this incident took place but I am confident that NSL staff are now in a much better position to understand your groups intentions and that such an incident will not occur in the future.

Yours sincerely

Ian Kershaw

Head of Planning and Performance

Safer Sutton Partnership Service

The Police Station, 6 Carshalton Road, Sutton, SM1 4RF

Tel: xxxxxxxxxxx  Fax: xxxxxxxxxxxx

Email: ian.kershaw@sutton.gov.uk

-----------------------------------------------------
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Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Sutton maiden $chunt - 20th July 2013. Wanna fight?
« Reply #14 on: 10 August, 2013, 01:03:33 PM »
Just sent this.

Don't p*** on my shoes and tell me it's raining!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent:   10 August 2013 11:42:54

To:    Kershaw Ian (ian.kershaw@sutton.gov.uk)

Cc:    ruth.dombey@sutton.gov.uk (ruth.dombey@sutton.gov.uk); (niall.bolger@sutton.gov.uk) (niall.bolger@sutton.gov.uk); (sanjay.pashar@sutton.gov.uk) (sanjay.pashar@sutton.gov.uk); (donna.ashby@sutton.gov.uk) (donna.ashby@sutton.gov.uk); (mary.morrissey@sutton.gov.uk) (mary.morrissey@sutton.gov.uk); (andy.carter@sutton.gov.uk) (andy.carter@sutton.gov.uk); (simon.belgard@sutton.gov.uk) (simon.belgard@sutton.gov.uk)(andy.carter@sutton.gov.uk); simon.belgard@sutton.gov.uk (simon.belgard@sutton.gov.uk)

Dear Mr Kershaw

I truly wish I could share your optimism that "...NSL takes all matters of this nature involving their staff extremely seriously" and that "...NSL has issued advice to all of its staff about who NoToMob are and what your intentions are" and that "...such an incident will not occur in the future."

My skepticism derives from the fact that it was a little over three years ago that we had our first encounter with NSL employees, and they have known exactly who we are and what our intentions are ever since.

It is also a fact that there was a similar incident recently in Waltham Forest where members of the No To Mob were assaulted (I was one), following which an NSL investigation was launched, headed by one Mr Kenneth Hanslip who heads up these investigations. For details please refer to this thread on our website. http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php/topic,2725.0.html

And it was the same internal investigation team headed by Mr Kenneth Hanslip who entirely failed to protect Hakim Berkani (please see attached Employment Tribunal judgment) from his bosses.

You may care to note that despite this judgment, Mr Berkani has been blacklisted by all parking contractors so that he can never again do the job he loved, whereas the bosses responsible for this travesty are still employed by NSL, and in some cases have been promoted since Mr Berkani's unlawful sacking.

As a consequence of all this (and more that I will not bore you with) I am forced to draw the conclusion that your contractors may have lied to you on this issue.

I do not ask for comment on this, as I understand it would be inappropriate for you to do so. I simply ask that you understand why I do not share your optimism as to the No To Mob's future relationship with NSL.

Kindly acknowledge safe receipt of this email.

Yours sincerely

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
« Last Edit: 10 August, 2013, 01:05:46 PM by The Bald Eagle »
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