Croydon Council - Yellow Box Junction

[Groovrider]

I received a PCN from Croydon Council for contravening a "half box" yellow box junction, junction of Bensham Lane and the London Road Croydon, A23.

I believe this yellow box does not meet the minimum width as per the DoT Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 5, Road Markings, I have an upcoming engagement with a Parking Adjudicator. If anyone knows more about yellow box junctions I would be happy to hear any replies.

I'm sure this half yellow box is painted far too narrow, the Council has just painted this to fit the width of the road.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/traffic-signs-manual

[The Bald Eagle]

@Groovrider

Try getting them to provide a copy of the Traffic Management Order (TMO) which will have a diagram of the road layout attached to it.

Also, if the dimensions of the yellow box do not comply with TSRGD it doesn't mean the council can't enforce it. What it does mean is that they need special permission from the DfT to use a format not provided for in the TSRGD.  Here is a useful link:

http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php/topic,1841.msg14735.html#msg14735

[anna.noel94]

Hiya I know this was over a year ago but just wondered what the outcome of this was as I have just recieved a fine for this box junction although it wasnt my fault. I have contested it but wondered if this was something i could add to my argument..

Thanks
Anna

[The Bald Eagle]

Hiya I know this was over a year ago but just wondered what the outcome of this was as I have just recieved a fine for this box junction although it wasnt my fault. I have contested it but wondered if this was something i could add to my argument..

Thanks
Anna

Unfortunately Anna, what you see is all we've got. Groovrider didn't get back to us so we don't know what happened.

My previous advice on this thread is still good up to a point. I did tell Groovrider to get a copy of the TMO, but it turns out authorities don't need a TMO to install a box junction. See page 76 - 12.4 here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/223667/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-05.pdf

This document goes on to tell you all about minimum and maximum sizes of yellow boxes.

If Groovrider is right and the yellow box does not comply with TSRGD, then it will be unenforceable unless they have special permission from the DfT. You can search for such special permissions here:

http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php/topic,1841.0.html

My advice would be to get the tape measure out and see whether the box complies with minimum size stipulated in TSRGD and the Traffic Signs Manual.

Please keep us informed of your findings. You never know, we might be able to get everyone their money back if the council have cocked this up.

Stay cool

BE