Author Topic: Ealing $chunt 20th August 2015 - Connell Crescent  (Read 18328 times)

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Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Ealing $chunt 20th August 2015 - Connell Crescent
« Reply #15 on: 22 August, 2015, 12:04:06 PM »
Mr Mustard's report of the $chunt. I will split the difference with him and agree that we saved about 185  ;D

====================================

21 August 2015

ConAll Crescent, Ealing


Mr Mustard may have got the road name wrong in the title

Yesterday, Mr Mustard and another NoToMob member, a veteran as it happens, by the name of Bald Eagle, and here is the photographic evidence of him in action


Mr Mustard was also with him that day, evidently not wise to let him out on his own, lol

decided to do something about the huge number of motorists who, by dint of habit, were missing a new "no motor vehicles" sign at the exit of Hanger Green into Connell Crescent in Ealing, near the Boden shop (suppliers of flowery shirts to Mr Mustard and shoes to Mrs Angry)



 So at 3pm we started. By 4pm we had prevented 50 motorists from going into Connell Crescent when they shouldn't have, all going there by force of habit after driving down there for many years.

So that was £6,500 that Ealing Council didn't sent out demands for.

Motorists we met fell into 2 camps.

Camp 1, who have had 1,2,4,6,7 PCN here before they found out the new rules. Big thumbs up from them.

Camp 2, are you sure? Oh I see, now I see, thank you very much. We'll go along the A40 then.

About 10 motorists decided to ignore us and go down Connell Crescent despite being warned. You will all get a PCN for £130 in the post and listen to NoToMob members next time.

About 6 cars came the other way out of Connell Crescent which is fine and we met some of the residents who said that even they had not been warned about the new restrictions and some of them had been ticketed. We suggested they talk very forcefully into the ears of their local councillors. Clearly the necessary local publicity which should be a vital part of any new restriction had not taken place. We absolutely understand the need to restrict this location being used as a cut through as it is not suitable for more than light local traffic. The Ocado driver was bit hacked off at having to go the long way round but he will adjust to it.

Local business John Lewis had warned all of its drivers. The presence of the NoToMob ensured that a number of other local businesses with many drivers would now be warning them all.

3 driving instructors were prevented from entering the road and were suitably chastened (sorry if you were embarrassed in front of your students but you did save £130 apiece).

Numerous mini cab drivers didn't know about the new signs. They do now and will hopefully spread the word.

The one black cab driver who happened along wisely touched the side of his eye in a knowing manner to show that he did know.

A police car with 4 officers in it stopped for a chat. They were perfectly happy with our activities and we chatted for a few minutes during which time one car escaped us into Connell Crescent.

One driver tried to press a tenner into my hand. It was declined. He was directed to the NoToMOb site to sign up instead and so some prevention work of his own.

At 6.25 dinner was calling (7.30 at Ai Sushi in Finchley) so we mounted our bikes to leave and even then whilst parked up Mr Mustard, who could be mistaken for a policeman if you aren't concentrating, with his high-vis jacket and clear hand signals, managed to stop two more cars from entering the banned entry.

A good afternoons work with about 170 motorists who didn't commit a contravention on the day, nor will they another day, thus saving a collective £22,100 from being demanded by Ealing Council.

Who said it was all about revenue raising? NoToMob did. This coming Thursday at 22.35 on BBC1 you can see Bald Eagle and other mobbers on the tv doing their stuff.

Yours frugally

Mr Mustard


http://lbbspending.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/conall-crescent-ealing.html
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Offline Ewan Hoosami

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Re: Ealing $chunt 20th August 2015 - Connell Crescent
« Reply #16 on: 22 August, 2015, 12:29:35 PM »
Mr Mustard may have got the road name wrong in the title




 :pmsl:  :pmsl:  :pmsl:  :pmsl:  :pmsl:
Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

Offline DastardlyDick

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Re: Ealing $chunt 20th August 2015 - Connell Crescent
« Reply #17 on: 22 August, 2015, 02:07:35 PM »
The trick is to go a bit further along the A40 (towards Hanger Lane Gyratory) to where the Premier Inn is located, turn in there, follow the road round past the parade of shops, then go out onto the North Circular. This only works if you're heading South (towards Gunnersbury) on the North Circular, but as this section is "owned" by TfL, you are safe from the predatory nature of Ealing Council. :-D

Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Ealing $chunt 20th August 2015 - Connell Crescent
« Reply #18 on: 22 August, 2015, 08:55:56 PM »
WARNING!

HAVING CONSULTED WITH THE GUYS ON PEPIPOO THIS ADVICE APPEARS TO BE INCORRECT.

MY APOLOGIES.

MEA CULPA.

SEE http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=101153&st=0




Sign 619 can be accompanied by plates to diagram 620 or 620.1.  These signs include the word “Except” and list the times which the restrictions do not apply, rather than listing the times when it does.


BGB got it right about what is wrong with the signs at ConAll Crescent and so gets the Brownie points.

His explanation is short and to the point, so I will explain it more fully, with pics and legalese.

Diagram 619 (the flying motorbike sign) can ONLY be used in conjunction with the exception plates diagram 620





or 620.1





Both of these are exception plates that can have times on them. Basically the "No entry for motor vehicles signs apply at all times EXCEPT for either access or loading at times that can be specified on the exception plates.

If you care to go here http://m.tsrgd.co.uk/sign.html?id=619 you will see confirmation that the EXCEPTION plates are the only ones that can be used with diagram 619. The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 (TSRGD) is the legislation that establishes what is and isn't legal as far as road signs go. If it ain't in there and you try to enforce by making your own signs up, you're going to come unstuck.



The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 states;

"64 General provisions as to traffic signs.E+W+S

(1) In this Act “traffic sign” means any object or device (whether fixed or portable) for conveying, to traffic on roads or any specified class of traffic, warnings, information, requirements, restrictions or prohibitions of any description—

(a)specified by regulations made by the Ministers acting jointly,
[which is how they established TSRGD 2002] or

(b)authorised by the Secretary of State, and any line or mark on a road for so conveying such warnings, information, requirements, restrictions or prohibitions.

(2)Traffic signs shall be of the size, colour and type prescribed by regulations as mentioned in subsection (1)(a) above
[so if they are not they are unlawful and therefore unenforceable] except where the Secretary of State authorises the erection or retention of a sign of another character; and for the purposes of this subsection illumination, whether by lighting or by the use of reflectors or reflecting material, or the absence of such illumination, shall be part of the type or character of a sign."

Which brings us to the next point. Has the SoS authorised "the erection or retention of a sign of another character"

To check if they have you need to consult the DfT's "Details of non-standard traffic signs approved in England since 1 January 2011." and search for Ealing's specially authorised signs. For ease of reference click here.  http://www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-auths/?search=ealing

OOH LOOK! I here you say. They haven't got special authorisation for their illegal signs.

I can feel a letter to the leader of the council coming on. They cannot be allowed to benefit from any unlawfully derived income.

The Bald Eagle is plotting... :-ev-:
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Offline Pat Pending

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Re: Ealing $chunt 20th August 2015 - Connell Crescent
« Reply #19 on: 23 August, 2015, 05:02:48 PM »


Sign 619 can be accompanied by plates to diagram 620 or 620.1.  These signs include the word “Except” and list the times which the restrictions do not apply, rather than listing the times when it does.


BGB got it right about what is wrong with the signs at ConAll Crescent and so gets the Brownie points.

His explanation is short and to the point, so I will explain it more fully, with pics and legalese.

Diagram 619 (the flying motorbike sign) can ONLY be used in conjunction with the exception plates diagram 620





or 620.1





Both of these are exception plates that can have times on them. Basically the "No entry for motor vehicles signs apply at all times EXCEPT for either access or loading at times that can be specified on the exception plates.

If you care to go here http://m.tsrgd.co.uk/sign.html?id=619 you will see confirmation that the EXCEPTION plates are the only ones that can be used with diagram 619. The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 (TSRGD) is the legislation that establishes what is and isn't legal as far as road signs go. If it ain't in there and you try to enforce by making your own signs up, you're going to come unstuck.



The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 states;

"64 General provisions as to traffic signs.E+W+S

(1) In this Act “traffic sign” means any object or device (whether fixed or portable) for conveying, to traffic on roads or any specified class of traffic, warnings, information, requirements, restrictions or prohibitions of any description—

(a)specified by regulations made by the Ministers acting jointly,
[which is how they established TSRGD 2002] or

(b)authorised by the Secretary of State, and any line or mark on a road for so conveying such warnings, information, requirements, restrictions or prohibitions.

(2)Traffic signs shall be of the size, colour and type prescribed by regulations as mentioned in subsection (1)(a) above
[so if they are not they are unlawful and therefore unenforceable] except where the Secretary of State authorises the erection or retention of a sign of another character; and for the purposes of this subsection illumination, whether by lighting or by the use of reflectors or reflecting material, or the absence of such illumination, shall be part of the type or character of a sign."

Which brings us to the next point. Has the SoS authorised "the erection or retention of a sign of another character"

To check if they have you need to consult the DfT's "Details of non-standard traffic signs approved in England since 1 January 2011." and search for Ealing's specially authorised signs. For ease of reference click here.  http://www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-auths/?search=ealing

OOH LOOK! I here you say. They haven't got special authorisation for their illegal signs.

I can feel a letter to the leader of the council coming on. They cannot be allowed to benefit from any unlawfully derived income.

The Bald Eagle is plotting... :-ev-:



HOLD ON  a cotton picking moment I want to appeal against this decision!   W:T:F:   I clearly parked my comment in the correct place, I have documentary evidence to support my claim of parking the "EXCEPT" in accordance with rules set out by The Bald Eagle!!!  I will accept a letter of apology and a brown envelope stuffed with used twenties as compensation for the stress and upset this whole sordid affair has caused me. :o


Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Beer in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up,  totally worn out and screaming "WOO-HOO, what a  ride!!"

Offline babz

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Re: Ealing $chunt 20th August 2015 - Connell Crescent
« Reply #20 on: 04 September, 2015, 01:14:16 PM »
Righto... been away for almost two weeks, got home and found nice letter from Ealing Council!

Normally I find it blatantly obvious when I come across no motor vehicle signs, as they scream out pretty loudly we shouldn't to enter - especially as No Motor Vehicle signs are always in pairs, CLOSE to each other at the mouth of a road! Here I didn't notice them at all! This is before we even mention the other signson the right hand side for the A40 that take away some of your attention, leaving even less time to read the new signs they've put in place while on the move. Are we supposed to slow down to a stop, read every sentence and then decide weather to proceed or not?


I have about 3 hours to post a letter of appeal for it to get to them before the cut off date - any advice on how to write one? Part of me just wants to pay up, but I feel that having someone appeal and report back on what happens to this forum might be of interest to other forum members and anyone else that gets a fine?

I asked a friend to check for me and he said there are no "new traffic regulation" signs along the A40 coming up to the turn in for Conall Crescent.

I have read the anomalies with the signage above, but don't quite understand how to word it correctly for an appeal :/

Offline BGB

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Re: Ealing $chunt 20th August 2015 - Connell Crescent
« Reply #21 on: 04 September, 2015, 03:41:01 PM »
Welcome babz

For an appeal to the Council you can put anything.  The Council will likely reject anyway.  You can then appeal to London Tribunals, where you will get a more considered decision.

I suggest a quick appeal along the lines of "The signage is unclear and confusing".  Don't worry about getting it "right".  Just make an appeal before the deadline.
« Last Edit: 04 September, 2015, 04:04:44 PM by BGB »

Offline babz

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Re: Ealing $chunt 20th August 2015 - Connell Crescent
« Reply #22 on: 04 September, 2015, 07:14:56 PM »
Welcome babz

For an appeal to the Council you can put anything.  The Council will likely reject anyway.  You can then appeal to London Tribunals, where you will get a more considered decision.

I suggest a quick appeal along the lines of "The signage is unclear and confusing".  Don't worry about getting it "right".  Just make an appeal before the deadline.
Thanks for that BGB, I've sent the appeal, lets see what happens!

Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Ealing $chunt 20th August 2015 - Connell Crescent
« Reply #23 on: 05 September, 2015, 10:52:30 AM »
Welcome babz

May I respectfully remind you that my carefully prepared advice on what I thought was wrong with the signs and lines was shot down in flames when I asked the experts on Pepipoo for their advice on it.

It turns out that although I was correct with my assertions that the signs did not strictly comply with the current law, it is likely that the argument wouldn't succeed in front of a London Tribunals adjudicator because they bend over backwards to accommodate money grabbing councils by allowing a "substantial compliance" argument that bends the law in councils' favour.

Conversely, motorists are held strictly to each and every law by both the council and the adjudicators.

Going to go now. My blood pressure has been raised to alarming levels whilst writing this.

 <Swearyangry> <Swearyangry> <Swearyangry> <Swearyrant> <Swearyangry> <Swearyangry> <Swearyangry> <Swearyrant>
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Offline scalyback

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Re: Ealing $chunt 20th August 2015 - Connell Crescent
« Reply #24 on: 05 September, 2015, 09:21:46 PM »
I guess their wages come from the council, and the money comes indirectly from parking tickets?

"If you don't make the motorists pay, then we won't pay you".

Or have I got that a little wrong?

Offline Ewan Hoosami

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Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.