Author Topic: Update - TSRGD 2016 comes into effect 22 April 2016  (Read 6940 times)

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Offline 2b1ask1

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Re: Update - TSRGD 2016 comes into effect 22 April 2016
« Reply #1 on: 24 March, 2016, 03:44:26 PM »
thanks for that; I did try to read it honest, fell asleep twice and then lost the will to live when I realised I'd only made it 20% of the way through it!
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Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Update - TSRGD 2016 comes into effect 22 April 2016
« Reply #2 on: 24 March, 2016, 04:30:21 PM »
I wonder if they will publish an updated Traffic Signs Manual at the same time? <_>
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Offline scalyback

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Re: Update - TSRGD 2016 comes into effect 22 April 2016
« Reply #3 on: 25 March, 2016, 01:04:27 PM »
Not me either, loads of words and triangular things. I'm getting my Meccano out for the afternoon.

Offline Ewan Hoosami

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Re: Update - TSRGD 2016 comes into effect 22 April 2016
« Reply #4 on: 25 March, 2016, 03:39:24 PM »
Haywards Heath Council have requested authorisation from the Dft for the following sign (so I've heard).
Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

Offline javabike

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Re: Update - TSRGD 2016 comes into effect 22 April 2016
« Reply #5 on: 27 March, 2016, 03:10:35 PM »
In a nut shell what does it mean, anyone?
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Offline Web Admin

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Re: Update - TSRGD 2016 comes into effect 22 April 2016
« Reply #6 on: 31 March, 2016, 01:43:48 PM »
National traffic sign reforms to come into force this April

New national regulations for traffic signs come into force from 22 April, providing councils with more flexibility but also raising fears of legal ‘uncertainties’ that could see authorities have to fight their corner in court.

Statutory instruments reforming the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD) have been laid before parliament after a series of delays and consultations on the final reforms, which date back to at least the 2011 Signing the Way review.

The reforms provide more discretion about the design and placement of many signs, in many cases removing the requirement for upright signs and road markings to be placed together.

About fifty new signs have been added, the Institute of Highways Engineers (IHE) said, with more permitted variants for existing ones.

The Department for Transport (DfT) has previously said the changes include allowing parking bays that have no restrictions on their use to be placed without the need for a Traffic Regulation Order and a relaxation of sign lighting requirements - while retaining lighting for some safety critical and enforcement signs.

‘The new TSRGD provides an estimated benefit to local authorities of around £7m a year,’ DfT officials said in an impact assessment.

These benefits are derived mainly through relaxing the need to illuminate certain signs and reducing requirements for local engineers to apply for authorisation for signs from the DfT.

A DfT circular aimed at local authorities and practitioners explaining the new TSRGD will be made available once the reforms come into force.

Chair of the IHE signs panel, Simon Morgan, told Transport Network: ‘The IHE welcomes the new regulations, which provide greater flexibility, particularly in parking reducing the need for approval from the central government. It is also suitable that some signs no longer need illumination.'

He added: 'Over the past eight years, we’ve been working closely with DfT on the proposals by promoting discussion, checking drafts and proposing improvements.’

However Transport Network sources raised concerns about the legal uncertainty the reforms have created by giving councils so much discretion over signage, and the complexity of the new document, which was intended to streamline the process.

One source said: ‘There is a lot of uncertainty here, which will make enforcement very difficult and raises the prospect of more legal battles. Ultimately it will be for the courts or independent parking adjudicators to decide what is appropriate as there is no body for councils to approach to see if they have the right signage solution.’

They added that the most common appeal would likely be over parking issues.

http://www.transport-network.co.uk/National-traffic-sign-reforms-to-come-into-force-this-April/12695#

Offline Mr Mustard

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Re: Update - TSRGD 2016 comes into effect 22 April 2016
« Reply #7 on: 01 April, 2016, 11:42:24 AM »
The new printed TSRGD is £65 - mine is ordered.

Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Update - TSRGD 2016 comes into effect 22 April 2016
« Reply #8 on: 01 April, 2016, 11:57:51 AM »
547 pages of almost indecipherable legislation?!?! :o ??? :o ??? :o ???

Good luck with that one Mr M.

Personally speaking I'll wait for the paperback version, aka the 2016 Traffic Signs Manual.
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Offline Ewan Hoosami

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Re: Update - TSRGD 2016 comes into effect 22 April 2016
« Reply #9 on: 01 April, 2016, 01:35:08 PM »
You will be amazed when you see what M'learned Mustard finds in there.  :o

Mr Mustard's house is now under round-the-clock weasel patrol in a bid to scare the postman away. 
Appealing to the council is like playing chess with a pigeon. You might be a chess grand master but the pigeon will always knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and then strut around triumphantly.

Offline scalyback

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Re: Update - TSRGD 2016 comes into effect 22 April 2016
« Reply #10 on: 03 April, 2016, 03:01:26 PM »
Fifty new traffic signs?

Do they just make these up to keep their jobs?

I saw a triangular frog crossing sign the other day, but never seen the rumoured 'Beware of weasels' that I expected to populate the local car park's lamp posts.


Offline Mr Mustard

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Re: Update - TSRGD 2016 comes into effect 22 April 2016
« Reply #11 on: 13 April, 2016, 04:59:48 PM »
My paper copy has arrived but I'm too busy to read it. Laters.

What has anooyed me is that the previously free on line access to the same info is now going to be charged for, £4.90 a month for one user. The second word of my answer to that is 'off'. I've challenged on twitter and silence has reigned. A good job I copied Parking Review in as they will probably run a story on it. Publicity, lovely.

Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Update - TSRGD 2016 comes into effect 22 April 2016
« Reply #12 on: 13 April, 2016, 07:38:36 PM »
You can always do what I just did. I clicked on the link Web Admin put up and downloaded all 547 pages of the bloody thing.

I would have put it up here but the file is too big and no matter which pdf compressor I try I can't make it small enough.  <bashy2> :bashy: <bashy2> :bashy: <bashy2> :bashy: 




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Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: Update - TSRGD 2016 comes into effect 22 April 2016
« Reply #13 on: 23 April, 2016, 12:34:25 PM »
Talk about the perfect storm. A whole new set of rules but no advice on how to interpret them (no Traffic Signs Manual).

This won't end well.

==============================


Why new road sign rules could spell trouble for motorists





The Government’s “bonfire of the traffic signs” risks turning into a flood of litigation as drivers appeal against parking and speeding fines on the grounds of insufficient signage, writes Joe Dunn.

The warning  comes in the wake of new powers given to councils aimed at decluttering Britain’s roads, which come into effect today.

Under the new system, councils have the power to remove signs they deem unnecessary, including those indicating residents’ parking spaces as well as speed limit repeater signs, which appear on many of the country’s roads.

The Government claims the move will reduce “pointless” road signs and is a key part of its drive to deregulate the transport network. It will also save councils an estimated £30 million over the next four years in upkeep costs.

Motoring experts, however, claim that the changes are a “mess” and may result in drivers being unfairly penalised. They say many will be within their rights to appeal against speeding fines and parking penalty charges issued on roads where signs have been removed, and that courts will be more likely to find in their favour.

The confusion has echoes of the Government’s previous attempts at deregulating transport policy when it abolished the tax disc last year and axed the paper counterpart driving licence. Both moves quickly turned to farce as thousands of drivers found themselves clamped after forgetting to renew their tax without the visual reminder in their windscreen, while holidaymakers found they couldn’t hire cars without their paper counterpart licence.





The new powers, contained in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD), were unveiled last week and came into effect yesterday. However, when designing roads and signs, many councils rely on guidelines laid out in a 187-page document called the Traffic Signs Manual, or TSM. It specifies how and where signs should be displayed: on a 50mph road, for example, repeater signs, used to remind drivers of the prevailing limit, should be spaced a maximum of 450 metres (1,476ft) apart. On a 40mph road the distance should be no more than 350 metres (1,148ft). Signs indicating parking restrictions are recommended to be placed 30 metres (98ft) apart.

The guidelines can also be used by courts and parking appeal panels to help decide whether a driver was guilty of an offence in cases where the driver claims there was insufficient signage.





Critics point out that these guidelines have not been updated in anticipation of the changes contained in the new regulations, and that no guidance on the new rules has been issued to councils. They say the oversight means that in cases in which councils have removed speed limit repeater signs or parking restriction signs in line with government recommendations, courts and parking appeal panels are more likely to find in the driver’s favour.

Simon Morgan, of the Institute of Highway Engineers (IHE), who represented the body during the Government’s consultation process on the new law, said the IHE was broadly in favour of reducing roadside clutter but that important issues had not been thought through. He said: “Until more guidance is available on using the new [sign removal] options, many authorities are uncertain how parking adjudicators and the courts will handle any problems of public understanding.

“Reducing clutter is an admirable objective, but for it to work there needs to be information for road users to help them understand a regime of fewer signs.”

Legal experts say the new rules could open the floodgates to drivers appealing against speeding tickets. Nick Freeman, the lawyer known as “Mr Loophole” after defending celebrities such as David Beckham and Jeremy Clarkson in speeding cases, said: “Insufficient signage is a very strong defence and courts look favourably on it. It is a legal requirement that the signs are clear and it is made obvious to the driver what the speed limit is.

“Each case would be judged on its merits, but in cases where the driver is genuinely unaware of the limit because the signs weren’t there, or had been removed, I would expect a positive outcome.”



Inadequate signage is already a common reason for which to appeal against and penalty charges. The Traffic Penalty Tribunal, which hears appeals against penalties for parking, bus lane and moving traffic contraventions in England and Wales outside London, says that in 2015 about 2,000 drivers who appealed (about 10 per cent) their parking charge used the “insufficient signage” defence – of which approximately half were successful. 

Caroline Shepherd, chief adjudicator at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, said: “It may be the case that residents know that a road is restricted to permit holders and they may feel signs clutter the street. But the restrictions should be clear to visitors or strangers, too. We will have to wait and see what effect the new rules have.

“It may well be that in its early days, if a motorist feels the signing isn’t clear the council will accept that and explain it is still working out how to use signage and will not enforce the fine. If it does decide to enforce, it will be up to the adjudicators to decide on a case-by-case basis.”

The Department for Transport defended the changes, saying a new TSM was in the process of being drawn up and further guidance was being issued. A spokesman said: “Councils are still required to put in place signs where restrictions are in force to ensure that motorists are properly informed, and they can continue to refer to the current Traffic Signs Manual.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/why-new-road-sign-rules-could-spell-trouble-for-motorists/
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