Author Topic: CCTV $cars are NOT allowed to park illegally.........FACT!!!!!!!!!!  (Read 11020 times)

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Offline Monkey Girl

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Re: CCTV $cars are NOT allowed to park illegally.........FACT!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #45 on: 16 May, 2011, 09:25:55 PM »
I cant wait for this reply  :-ev-: :-ev-: :-ev-: :-ev-:
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Offline Pat Pending

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Re: CCTV $cars are NOT allowed to park illegally.........FACT!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #46 on: 16 May, 2011, 09:26:29 PM »
Feck me BH that last paragraph took a couple of read through's. W:T:F: But I managed it without the aid of a map and compass in the end. 8)
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Offline BailiffHunter

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Re: CCTV $cars are NOT allowed to park illegally.........FACT!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #47 on: 16 May, 2011, 09:30:20 PM »
A bit like Euston Stn to Brixton prison Pat......42 feckin road names :bashy: :bashy: :bashy: Let`s see what comes back from the DfT as one way or the other we will know what we are dealing with!
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Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: CCTV $cars are NOT allowed to park illegally.........FACT!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #48 on: 17 May, 2011, 10:19:37 AM »
Quote from: "BailiffHunter"
Let`s see what comes back from the DfT as one way or the other we will know what we are dealing with!

I thought we heard from a very senior source at Wastemonster that the DfT were bunch of Muppets mate? :rotfl:
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Offline Belplasca

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Re: CCTV $cars are NOT allowed to park illegally.........FACT!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #49 on: 17 May, 2011, 10:59:11 AM »
Really interesting in the news today that the government is employing someone to see why shoppers are deserting local High Streets in droves...

Wouldn't have anything to do with over-the-top, revenue driven parking enforcement, would it?

Bob
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Offline Pat Pending

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Re: CCTV $cars are NOT allowed to park illegally.........FACT!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #50 on: 17 May, 2011, 12:34:19 PM »
Now there is an avenue Mary Queen of Shops might like to investigate.  :-ev-:
« Last Edit: 01 January, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by Guest »
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Beer in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up,  totally worn out and screaming "WOO-HOO, what a  ride!!"

Offline Monkey Girl

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Re: CCTV $cars are NOT allowed to park illegally.........FACT!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #51 on: 17 May, 2011, 05:18:37 PM »
Quote from: "Belplasca"
Really interesting in the news today that the government is employing someone to see why shoppers are deserting local High Streets in droves...

Wouldn't have anything to do with over-the-top, revenue driven parking enforcement, would it?

Bob
Yes it is!! ...  I spoke to most  of the shops at top end of Chatham High St today, they " hate" the Scar, and there takings are down since 2008 funny! that's when the Scars arrived down here... Im going digging....i ho i ho  :-ev-:
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Offline Esinem

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Re: CCTV $cars are NOT allowed to park illegally.........FACT!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #52 on: 18 May, 2011, 03:30:49 AM »
[font=georgia:3rgtemqj]Grasping at straws? [/font:3rgtemqj]
[font=georgia:3rgtemqj]"[/font:3rgtemqj][font=georgia:3rgtemqj]In regards to t[/font:3rgtemqj][font=georgia:3rgtemqj]he quote referred to[/font:3rgtemqj][font=georgia:3rgtemqj], it [/font:3rgtemqj][font=georgia:3rgtemqj]is [/font:3rgtemqj][font=georgia:3rgtemqj]from [/font:3rgtemqj][font=georgia:3rgtemqj]the chief adjudicator for [/font:3rgtemqj][font=georgia:3rgtemqj]the Traffic Penalty Tribunal which covers [/font:3rgtemqj][font=georgia:3rgtemqj]England and Wales [/font:3rgtemqj][font=georgia:3rgtemqj]but [/font:3rgtemqj][font=georgia:3rgtemqj]exclud[/font:3rgtemqj][font=georgia:3rgtemqj]es [/font:3rgtemqj][font=georgia:3rgtemqj]London hence the reference to Traffic Regulation Orders (TRO's) which do not exist in London.  [/font:3rgtemqj][font=georgia:3rgtemqj]The [/font:3rgtemqj][font=georgia:3rgtemqj]C[/font:3rgtemqj][font=georgia:3rgtemqj]ouncil does not believe that any similar sentiment has been stated by the chief adjudicator for London.[/font:3rgtemqj][/i][/u][font=georgia:3rgtemqj]"[/font:3rgtemqj][/i]
[font=georgia:3rgtemqj]Maybe this need clarification?[/font:3rgtemqj][font=arial:3rgtemqj][/font:3rgtemqj]


[align=left:3rgtemqj][font=arial:3rgtemqj]Thank you for your email. [/font:3rgtemqj][/color][/align:3rgtemqj] [align=left:3rgtemqj][/align:3rgtemqj] [align=left:3rgtemqj][font=arial:3rgtemqj]In regards to paragraph 1,  the request for a copy of the current VCA certificates meant  the Council checked back through the correspondence file with the VCA.  The last major change to our certification was the inclusion of a different type of CCTV vehicle.  We lodged our technical contraction file (TCF) with the VCA for these new vehicles on 04 July 2010, in response we received an email on 21 July 2010 confirming that they had accepted the change and we were re-certificated and that we could begin using the new vehicles.  The VCA did not send on the new certificates at this point but have now issued the two certificates dated 21 July 2010 to which their email of the same date referred.[/font:3rgtemqj][/align:3rgtemqj] [align=left:3rgtemqj][/align:3rgtemqj] [align=left:3rgtemqj][font=arial:3rgtemqj]In regards to paragraph 2 this has been referred as a new freedom of information request. [/font:3rgtemqj][/color][/align:3rgtemqj] [align=left:3rgtemqj][/align:3rgtemqj] [align=left:3rgtemqj][font=arial:3rgtemqj]In regards to the quote referred to, it is from the chief adjudicator for the Traffic Penalty Tribunal which covers England and Wales but excludes London hence the reference to Traffic Regulation Orders (TRO's) which do not exist in London.  The Council does not believe that any similar sentiment has been stated by the chief adjudicator for London.[/font:3rgtemqj][/align:3rgtemqj] [align=left:3rgtemqj][/align:3rgtemqj] [align=left:3rgtemqj][font=arial:3rgtemqj]Our traffic management orders state:[/font:3rgtemqj][/color][/align:3rgtemqj] [align=left:3rgtemqj][/align:3rgtemqj] [align=left:3rgtemqj]Extract from: Exceptions and exemptions to our Traffic Management Orders Page 5 of 440[/align:3rgtemqj] [align=left:3rgtemqj]Excepted Vehicles
8.1 The restrictions imposed by Article 4 of this order shall not apply :-
(e) in relation to a vehicle being used in the service of a local authority in pursuance of statutory powers or duties provided that in all the circumstances it is reasonably necessary in the exercise of such powers or the performance of such duties for the vehicle to wait in the place in which it is waiting;
(h) where notice is given to the Council or authorised agent, their consent is obtained in writing and any such conditions as they may impose are complied with.
The Traffic Management Act 2004 clearly places a statutory duty on local authorities. 
The council believes (e)/(h) clearly gives Southwark Council as a local authority the right to let it's or it's contractors vehicles when displaying an 'A' permit (written permission) and carrying out their statutory duties to wait in contravention.
Regards[/align:3rgtemqj] David Sole
Parking services and development manager
Southwark Council
Public Realm - Parking
PO Box 64529
London
SE1P 5LX
020 7525 2037
079 8579 8114
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Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: CCTV $cars are NOT allowed to park illegally.........FACT!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #53 on: 18 May, 2011, 10:25:34 AM »
Quote from: "Esinem"
[font=georgia:1px8r7gg]"[/font:1px8r7gg]In regards to t[/font:1px8r7gg][font=georgia:1px8r7gg]he quote referred to[/font:1px8r7gg][font=georgia:1px8r7gg], it [/font:1px8r7gg][font=georgia:1px8r7gg]is [/font:1px8r7gg][font=georgia:1px8r7gg]from [/font:1px8r7gg][font=georgia:1px8r7gg]the chief adjudicator for [/font:1px8r7gg][font=georgia:1px8r7gg]the Traffic Penalty Tribunal which covers [/font:1px8r7gg][font=georgia:1px8r7gg]England and Wales [/font:1px8r7gg][font=georgia:1px8r7gg]but [/font:1px8r7gg][font=georgia:1px8r7gg]exclud[/font:1px8r7gg][font=georgia:1px8r7gg]es [/font:1px8r7gg][font=georgia:1px8r7gg]London hence the reference to Traffic Regulation Orders (TRO's) which do not exist in London.  [/font:1px8r7gg]The [/font:1px8r7gg][/i][/u][font=georgia:1px8r7gg]C[/font:1px8r7gg][font=georgia:1px8r7gg]ouncil does not believe that any similar sentiment has been stated by the chief adjudicator for London.[/font:1px8r7gg]"


[/font:1px8r7gg]
[/i]Maybe this need clarification?[/font:1px8r7gg]

Adjudicators have noticed that in some of the correspondence the council has claimed that the TMA provides an exemption from parking restrictions for a CCTV vehicle. This is not the case - there are NO provisions in the TMA or any of its regulations that create exemptions to parking restrictions in TROs for vehicles engaged in camera
enforcement."

Quote from: "Esinem"
Maybe this need clarification?[/font:1px8r7gg]

How about this Bruce?

"It is agreed that London authorities are issued Traffic Management Orders (TMOs) as opposed to Traffic Regulation Orders (TROs). Please tell us where in the primary legislation (The Traffic management Act 2004) it provides for London authorities to give exemptions for CCTV enforcement cars under TMOs?
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Offline Belplasca

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Re: CCTV $cars are NOT allowed to park illegally.........FACT!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #54 on: 18 May, 2011, 07:38:09 PM »
Ealing claim to get their exemptions from the "Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984"

Is there anything in that that they can, indeed, use?

(I have asked Ealing for the actual wording, as part of a FOI discussion that I am having with them over the vans in Wadsworth Road...)

Bob

(edited because it was not displaying properly...)
« Last Edit: 24 May, 2011, 10:46:12 AM by Belplasca »
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Offline Esinem

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Re: CCTV $cars are NOT allowed to park illegally.........FACT!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #55 on: 24 May, 2011, 03:02:22 AM »
Oh gawd, if you insist...

Dear Lee

It is agreed that authorities are issued Traffic Management Orders (TMOs) as opposed to Traffic Regulation Orders (TROs). Please tell me where in the primary legislation (The Traffic management Act 2004) it provides for authorities to give exemptions for CCTV enforcement cars under TMOs. In the absence of such evidence, your assertions are groundless and the CCTV cars have no legal exemptions from the usual regulations.

Even if it were a valid argument, you say exemptions only apply where “the vehicle is being used for fire brigade or police purpose or, not being a passenger vehicle[, is being used in the service of a local authority in pursuance of statutory powers”. I think it is safe to assume that the Toyoya IQ is a passenger car, unless you can provide evidence to the contrary. Thus, it does not qualify as an Exempted Vehicle.

In the light of the above, I believe that it would be very wise to ensure the MEVs are parked legally and not where prohibitions are in place for public safety and free traffic flow.

Regards 

Bruce
« Last Edit: 24 May, 2011, 03:06:02 AM by Esinem »
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Offline The Bald Eagle

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Re: CCTV $cars are NOT allowed to park illegally.........FACT!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #56 on: 24 May, 2011, 12:03:34 PM »
Quote from: "Esinem"
Oh gawd, if you insist...

Dear Lee

It is agreed that authorities are issued Traffic Management Orders (TMOs) as opposed to Traffic Regulation Orders (TROs). Please tell me where in the primary legislation (The Traffic management Act 2004) it provides for authorities to give exemptions for CCTV enforcement cars under TMOs. In the absence of such evidence, your assertions are groundless and the CCTV cars have no legal exemptions from the usual regulations.

Even if it were a valid argument, you say exemptions only apply where “the vehicle is being used for fire brigade or police purpose or, not being a passenger vehicle[, is being used in the service of a local authority in pursuance of statutory powers”. I think it is safe to assume that the Toyoya IQ is a passenger car, unless you can provide evidence to the contrary. Thus, it does not qualify as an Exempted Vehicle.

In the light of the above, I believe that it would be very wise to ensure the MEVs are parked legally and not where prohibitions are in place for public safety and free traffic flow.

Regards 

Bruce



I reckon you should expect a whole lot of silence from them now that you appear to have once again backed them into a corner.
 
What we have to do now is see whether NSL change their behaviour when it comes to parking. If they no longer park where they would otherwise be liable to receive a ticket, score another one for the Mob.
 
Problem is we will never get the credit for it because that's the way these things work.
 
We prove them wrong, they change their practices, and no one apart from us and them are any the wiser.
 
But we'll know... ;) ;D
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Offline BailiffHunter

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Re: CCTV $cars are NOT allowed to park illegally.........FACT!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #57 on: 24 May, 2011, 06:12:44 PM »
@BE

I agree. All of my recent FOIs re parking provisions for $cars seem to be taking a rather long time to get an answers to. How odd :-ev-: :-ev-:
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Offline DastardlyDick

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Re: CCTV $cars are NOT allowed to park illegally.........FACT!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #58 on: 24 May, 2011, 10:49:41 PM »
I seem to emember that WCC/NSL were going to start single crewing their MEVs.
I don't suppose that in their twisted little minds they think that this will make the iQs/Smart cars non passenger carrying and therefore entitled to the exemption?
Just a thought......
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Offline Monkey Girl

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Re: CCTV $cars are NOT allowed to park illegally.........FACT!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #59 on: 24 May, 2011, 10:57:16 PM »
Medway Councils 2 new $cars are also single crewing, when they decide to use them!
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