CCTV $cars are NOT allowed to park illegally.........FACT!!!!!!!!!!

[BailiffHunter]

A little convo from a friend of mine on another forum this AM reads.............................

 Originally Posted by green_and_mean 

Assuming of course that TPT have read every single TRO in the UK? I have read numerous TROs that allow local authority vehicles to park whilst carrying out statutary duties which would include the statutary duty to enforce parking regulations. The argument is as stupid as complaining that Police cars speed whilst catching those that break the speed limit. DYL for example have numerous exemptions, you can get a pcn for parking on one yet be surounded by vehicles that don't such as emergency vehicles, blue badge holders, vehicles unloading, vehicles involved in building works etc etc. If a cctv vehicle was parked where parking is prohibited completely such as zig zags, bus stops etc there would be a valid argument but if parking is permitted as it is on DYL providing an exempt activity is taking place I cannot see there is any grounds for complaint. If it makes the public happier maybe the Council could fine itself for parking there and then pay its own fine when it arrives in the post, although what purpose that acheives I do not know??

I have also come across TRO's that do NOT provide any right for these CCTV to park on double yellows etc and where LA's will then insist that in any event, they have been given dispensation by the Department for Transport !! As you will know, the DfT do NOT give dispensation.......

Your argument about police cars is frankly not a good example. If a police car were speeding to catch up with a motorist who was also speeding, it would take a right idiot to follow behind the police!!! However, if a CCTV Camera Car is parked on double yellows, the motorist could be in a position of considering that the Operator is aware that the signage etc is invalid and that he too can park in the same place.

A good example of a local authority using CCTV Camera cars without the required permission is Richmond Council. The following was reported in yesterday's Evening Standard:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...ine-victory.do

PS: If, as you say the argument from Caroline Sheppard is stupid, I would not think that other adjudicators would share your view. She knows what she is talking about.

[peperami gsxr]

Nice work BH. I dont think the law can be used, even tho we could. But the public reaction will be fantastic 

[peperami gsxr]

This is the operational guidance to local authorities. Parking policy and enforcement TMA 2004, revised November 2010.


http://www.dft.gov.uk/adobepdf/165240/244921/287508/468279/parkingenforcepolicy.pdf

Chapter 9 deals with exemptions and dispensations.

(sorry if this has already been looked into/said)

[Pat Pending]

BH I have put you're name  forward for the $chunters highest award its called the Victoria St Double Cross.

[peperami gsxr]

Oh dear 

(this was taken by our very own Tyreman  ,  just this week of Bexley's finest. There was a conversation between TM and the driver but I'm not posting details...yet, more to follow  )

Thank you Tyreman 

[BailiffHunter]

@Pep

Thanks for this. In fact that was my  bed time reading last night after my revision The author is the Dft whom Sheila spoke to on my behalf yesterday and yes as we thought her contact went silent and then stated the following.......

 DfT lady "Sheila, we get complaints daily from the public regarding Council CCTV cars parking illegally on DYLs/SYLs"

Sheila "Has the DfT given Councils the provision for allowing dispensation to CCTV vehicles?"

DfT lady "Never"

That Operational Guidelines document clearly states which groups of motorists fall into potential dispensation category's and of course Emergency vehicles, Military, Nurses on call and Blue Badge holders are named and I would expect them to be in most if not all TROs. The significant lack of a mention of Council`s own vehicles (Albeit contractors) is obvious to me and unless I am to be proved wrong, the Councils are unable to alter/amend a TRO to include such mentioned vehicles as the TMA 2004 (Revised Nov 2010) does not allow it.

[Pat Pending]

Beautiful just bloody beautiful. 

[BailiffHunter]

Comments on this matter from an "Unknown Council worker" (Well maybe not too unknown ) on another forum......

"She may know what she is talking about but as I previously pointed out I very much doubt she has read every TRO she is correct in that the TMA does not include an exemption but neither does it need to, as exemptions are created in individual TROs. Personally I consider anyone stupid enough to park on DYL despite the presence of a marked enforcement vehicle with a camera stuck on its roof deserves a pcn. The TROs are created by the Council who enforce using decriminalised civil procedures they can therefore allow anyone they like to park if they so wish, no TMOs in London for example include an exemption for cash in transit vehicles yet most Councils follow guidance from 'London Councils' and do not ticket them, Councils can also give waivers to vehicles. Many Councils also allow a grace period of up to 14 days if a permit expires this is not in the TMO but is in the Councils policy on enforcement, do you consider this unlawful also and everything should be enforced as per the TMO? What about vehicles patrolling car parks, should they buy a ticket each car park they visit or just write themselves a PCN? You have also failed to answer what point there would be in the Council issuing tickets to its own enforcement vehicles as they are liable for payment?"

So if we take the above comments on board at face value, the TRO that the Council "Create" would need to mention the CCTV vehicle dispensation in their TROs.....Right? Well from memory (That is all over the place with the knowledge) did the "Golden Goose" TRO created in 1938 include the provision of parking for CCTV enforcement vehicles?   Yup you are all clever today.....CCTV $cars were not born yet in 1938 (Oh what a nice era that must have been) but the TRO of that year still stands in law today. So if no mention........its all bad news for the Council

See attached for a reminder of the TRO for Golden Goose.
 :dancing: :dancing: :dancing: :dancing: :dancing:

[peperami gsxr]

BH, thats how i have read it too, i know an independent person is looking into this, and i have someone that wants to check on it too.

I'm waiting to hear from them over the weekend.

I will PM what i've done so far,  rather than post on here. 

Unknown council worker, why unknown, something to hide 

[BailiffHunter]

@Peps

Trust me mate. This particular Council worker is a nasty bit of work. I believe Esinem has had several run ins with this plank on forums.......I know who I would put my money on though

[Pat Pending]

Pm me with the forums I would like to look. Just for research though!

[BailiffHunter]

Keep an eye on this thread all.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?302448-parking-Southwark-Smart-CCTV-Vehicle&p=3378501

That TD is a smart guy

[chalky]

Loved the "Tasmanian Devils" last post, if he isn't one of us, he should be invited to join. Just the perfect attitude and sounds like he has the Vfor Vendetta in him.

[Esinem]

From Lee Rowley
CCTV car parking: Regarding your e-mail on 21/4, I have passed that to officers to review.  Prior to your e-mail, myself and officers agreed on the following response to the questions you raised at the meeting -

Our traffic orders include exemptions for vehicles “used in the service of a local authority in pursuance of statutory powers or duties provided that in all the circumstances it is reasonably necessary in the exercise of such powers or the performance of such duties for the vehicle to wait in the place in which it is waiting”.

This does not provide a general, permanent exemption, and indeed such a measure would be contrary to the Traffic Management Act guidance, which states: “TROs usually also exempt service vehicles, but only when they are being used to carry out certain activities...”

We raised your concerns over vehicles being left on the street at the Frampton Street base with NSL, who have informed us that some of these vehicles were stopped on Frampton Street to test new equipment. NSL acknowledged that they have been left unattended at times, although they have not been left out overnight. We have instructed NSL that vehicles stopped in this location must either be manned or stored off the road in the car park.  Please let me know if you are aware of any continuing issues.

At the end of 2010, Westminster agreed with NSL that CCTV vehicles need not carry dispensation boards, as this would offer a cost saving. CEOs were briefed as to the dispensations that applied to CCTV cars, but there has been no alteration to handheld units and the relevant VRNs are not blocked on handheld units.

[NotEvenALondonRider]

So a timestamped picture of one of the ANPR cars, at Frampton Street, date / time stamped at 13.23 on 23rd April would be nice? With witnessess of me, Kiwi, MG, Coco, Jonesy, BE, etc that it was still there when we left at about 17.30 would be nice? 

Also noticed that they have a forward facing video camera mounted just under the rear view mirror, presumably so that there is evidence of the standard of driving exhibited by the operators?

NEALR aka Shedman