Ealing - Connell Crescent - appeals allowed at London Tribunals (formerly Patas)

[DastardlyDick]

It would appear that Ealing have moved the offending sign to the first right hand lamp post on Connell Crescent, and may now be compliant with the TMO/TRO. If this is the case they have negated the "incorrect signage" ground of appeal at adjudication. I noticed this yesterday (Friday) but don't know when the work was carried out, and couldn't get a photo as I was going past at some speed!

[The Bald Eagle]

It would appear that Ealing have moved the offending sign to the first right hand lamp post on Connell Crescent, and may now be compliant with the TMO/TRO. If this is the case they have negated the "incorrect signage" ground of appeal at adjudication. I noticed this yesterday (Friday) but don't know when the work was carried out, and couldn't get a photo as I was going past at some speed!

The problem is not with the one on the right, it's the one on the left that needs moving.

[DastardlyDick]

Either way, they're now both at the start of Connell Crescent one on each side of the road - i'll try and grab a piccie next time I'm at work, but it looks to me like the incorrect signage appeal might be dead in the water 

[Coco]

Either way, they're now both at the start of Connell Crescent one on each side of the road - i'll try and grab a piccie next time I'm at work, but it looks to me like the incorrect signage appeal might be dead in the water 

Not quite true. Look at the position of the lines across the start of Connell Crescent in this image. The lamp-post bearing the sign is over 50 feet from the start of the road.

[PaulBee]

Hi all, so I too have had 2 PCN's for this offence on the 14 & 21/12/15.

Seen all the great work you have done and wondered what the opinions are of whether the signs are now valid or not?

My argument is that although the one on the right has now been moved there is numerous signs there and the one on the right is still too far back. Also they've seen fit to put a camera to catch people making the turn and make them money on the lamp post prior to the turn, could and should they not have put a sign there if they were not intending to use this as a cash cow for them?

Any thoughts and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[PaulBee]

Can anyone help with this please?

[Ewan Hoosami]

Welcome PaulBee. The most successful point of appeal for this location has been on the signage point, like the following example,

Case Details
Case reference    2150381544
Appellant    Luigi Bonfante
Authority    London Borough of Ealing
VRM    LUI7626
PCN Details
PCN    EA35988313
Contravention date    07 Aug 2015
Contravention time    17:59:00
Contravention location    Connell Crescent, Ealing W5
Penalty amount    GBP 130.00
Contravention    Failing to comply with veh. type prohibited sign
Decision date    02 Dec 2015
Adjudicator    Teresa Brennan
Appeal decision    PCN appeal allowed
Direction    cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons   

Mr Dishman attended today to represent Mr Bonfante.

It is not disputed that the appellant’s car turned left into Connell Crescent and drove past two signs indicating a prohibition on motor vehicles proceeding in Hanger Green between 3pm and 7pm Monday to Friday.

The issue raised is the adequacy of the signing.

Mr Dishman referred me to the decision of Adjudicator Joanne Oxlade in the case of Drakard case reference 2150349698 and the decision of Adjudicator Jennifer Shepherd in the case of Capital Housing Associates 2150390250. Both Adjudicators allowed appeals in which the issue of signage. Having considered all the evidence in this case I agree with the decisions of both Adjudicators.

I find that the signage is inadequate because both signs and particularly the left sign are located after the commencement of the prohibition.


The other cases mentioned can be viewed online by visiting this link and entering the numbers into the 'case reference' field.   


 

[The Bald Eagle]

There is also a field where you can enter the location "Connell Crescent" that will help you find most of the winners and losers.

[PaulBee]

Welcome PaulBee. The most successful point of appeal for this location has been on the signage point, like the following example,

Case Details
Case reference    2150381544
Appellant    Luigi Bonfante
Authority    London Borough of Ealing
VRM    LUI7626
PCN Details
PCN    EA35988313
Contravention date    07 Aug 2015
Contravention time    17:59:00
Contravention location    Connell Crescent, Ealing W5
Penalty amount    GBP 130.00
Contravention    Failing to comply with veh. type prohibited sign
Decision date    02 Dec 2015
Adjudicator    Teresa Brennan
Appeal decision    PCN appeal allowed
Direction    cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons   

Mr Dishman attended today to represent Mr Bonfante.

It is not disputed that the appellant’s car turned left into Connell Crescent and drove past two signs indicating a prohibition on motor vehicles proceeding in Hanger Green between 3pm and 7pm Monday to Friday.

The issue raised is the adequacy of the signing.

Mr Dishman referred me to the decision of Adjudicator Joanne Oxlade in the case of Drakard case reference 2150349698 and the decision of Adjudicator Jennifer Shepherd in the case of Capital Housing Associates 2150390250. Both Adjudicators allowed appeals in which the issue of signage. Having considered all the evidence in this case I agree with the decisions of both Adjudicators.

I find that the signage is inadequate because both signs and particularly the left sign are located after the commencement of the prohibition.


The other cases mentioned can be viewed online by visiting this link and entering the numbers into the 'case reference' field.   


 

Thank you Ewan, that is most helpful. I've gone through all the cases to date that I could find here.

[PaulBee]

There is also a field where you can enter the location "Connell Crescent" that will help you find most of the winners and losers.

Thans Bald Eagle, I think!

I've gone through the cases and was just trying to get an up to date picture as I could not find anything since they have moved the sign

[The Bald Eagle]

Just to make things clear Paul, the signs have not been moved since they were installed in July last year. Dastardly Dick was having a brain fart when he suggested they had been moved.

See this thread here: http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php?topic=5797.msg34620#msg34620

Sorry for any confusion DD might have caused.

[PaulBee]

No problem, had me worried for a bit!

Thanks for getting back to me and the link

[Mr Mustard]

Some certainty (hopefully) is imminent.

There is a consolidated hearing of 25 Appeals on 18 May. I will be representing half a dozen Appellants (mostly motorists who got stuffed with multiple PCNs with the odd person only getting one) and having a shoot out of every argument against probably 3 Ealing council staff. Must go now and work on the skeleton argument that I have to file by mid April. The council then get 3 weeks to reply. At that point I will probably blog both documents.

This will be make or break for the PCNs.

[PaulBee]

Some certainty (hopefully) is imminent.

There is a consolidated hearing of 25 Appeals on 18 May. I will be representing half a dozen Appellants (mostly motorists who got stuffed with multiple PCNs with the odd person only getting one) and having a shoot out of every argument against probably 3 Ealing council staff. Must go now and work on the skeleton argument that I have to file by mid April. The council then get 3 weeks to reply. At that point I will probably blog both documents.

This will be make or break for the PCNs.

Good work Mr Mustard!

I've got my hearing next Thursday, was planning to go in with all the relevant cases (that being all of then!) but I have not been asked for a skeleton argument, should I have done one?

[Mr Mustard]

If you phone the tribunal on 020 7520 7200 and say you have heard there is a consolidated appeal on 18 May and could your case please be added to it.

I am the only person asked to prepare a skeleton argument as I am an experienced representative and have a number of cases running. I doubt that any other motorist has put in the number of detailed arguments that I have. I'll email you directly to share them with you.

I've just come back from a motorbike ride to Ealing Town hall and served the skeleton argument on them. London Tribunals got their copy this morning.